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Forget incels, meet ‘femcels’

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babybird
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26 Oct 2024, 11:54 am

I hate it when people use "incel" or "femcel" as an insult

I just think it pushes people to become more and more angry about their situation

I think people should be more kinder to each other


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blitzkrieg
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26 Oct 2024, 11:56 am

babybird wrote:
I hate it when people use "incel" or "femcel" as an insult

I just think it pushes people to become more and more angry about their situation

I think people should be more kinder to each other


I agree, bb. Kindness is a virtue.



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26 Oct 2024, 12:23 pm

I'm all in favour of this being out in the open though

I'm wondering if "Baby Reindeer" show is also a femcel issue as well as it being about a female stalker


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26 Oct 2024, 12:58 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
"KnowYourMeme’s biggest rival, the institution that is Urban Dictionary, is more accurate though: there, a femcel is defined as a woman who doesn’t have sex, voluntarily or otherwise, but more importantly, a “chronically online” woman who is generally “a social reject, especially in real life, and mostly [has] online friends (if any IRL friends at all)."


I would like to know the extent to which being 'chronically online' contributes to the development of both incel and femcel mindsets. I suspect it would be significant.

On the subject of the terms being used as insults, I'd agree. However wasn't incel the word that incels themselves gave to their condition? I believe it was.

I have a lot of sympathy for people who struggle to achieve a romantic connection with another human. I've been there and I know what that feels like. What I don't have much sympathy for is the mindset that some people develop that they're powerless to do anything to improve the situation, and that the fault lies with members of whatever sex they're trying to attract for not finding them attractive.


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26 Oct 2024, 4:07 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
Why does it not seem like a real thing?


To quote the very next paragraph after the one you quoted in your original post:

Quote:
Rhiannon is the pathetic yet dangerous star of Sweetpea, Sky Atlantic’s new adaptation of CJ Skuse’s 2017 novel of the same name. Over six episodes she stalks and attacks those she deems deserving of punishment, and you honestly kind of root for her for it, even though you know you shouldn’t. Skuse’s young adult novels were once described as a linchpin in the rise of “antiheroines”, girls behaving badly in literature, but today they might be known by another, more modern, more internet-friendly name. They would be considered femcels.


So. this is a work of fiction that is part of a long history in literature of writing antihero protagonists, except this is more unusual in that the antihero is a woman. As we know, in real life women seldom kill in comparison to men, and when they do it's usually self defense against their violent partners, so it's more shocking to read a story in which a woman is not killing in self defense but rather for enjoyment.

But then, the person who wrote this article decided to claim 'both sides' by equating this fictional character with a well known real life group: incels.

In real life, there just isn't a large groundswell of women who attack men the way incels attack women. Sure, lots of single heterosexual women can't always find a man they want to date, but they don't lash out online the way we've seen incels do. In real life, you just don't have to be afraid of a single woman the way you do have to be afraid of any man you don't know really well.


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blitzkrieg
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27 Oct 2024, 1:17 am

DuckHairback wrote:
I would like to know the extent to which being 'chronically online' contributes to the development of both incel and femcel mindsets. I suspect it would be significant.


That is an interesting point! I think you might be onto something there, although who knows whether incel and femcel mindsets are the precursor to being chronically online or the result of being a femcel or incel?

DuckHairback wrote:
On the subject of the terms being used as insults, I'd agree. However wasn't incel the word that incels themselves gave to their condition? I believe it was.


I think the word has become dirty, and that might not have been the original intention. The world itself is mired in stigma nowadays.

DuckHairback wrote:
I have a lot of sympathy for people who struggle to achieve a romantic connection with another human. I've been there and I know what that feels like. What I don't have much sympathy for is the mindset that some people develop that they're powerless to do anything to improve the situation, and that the fault lies with members of whatever sex they're trying to attract for not finding them attractive.


Agreed, I have sympathy for people in this realm, but I don't agree with blaming other people for not finding one attractive.



blitzkrieg
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27 Oct 2024, 1:23 am

ChicagoLiz wrote:
To quote the very next paragraph after the one you quoted in your original post:

"Rhiannon is the pathetic yet dangerous star of Sweetpea, Sky Atlantic’s new adaptation of CJ Skuse’s 2017 novel of the same name. Over six episodes she stalks and attacks those she deems deserving of punishment, and you honestly kind of root for her for it, even though you know you shouldn’t. Skuse’s young adult novels were once described as a linchpin in the rise of “antiheroines”, girls behaving badly in literature, but today they might be known by another, more modern, more internet-friendly name. They would be considered femcels."

So. this is a work of fiction that is part of a long history in literature of writing antihero protagonists, except this is more unusual in that the antihero is a woman. As we know, in real life women seldom kill in comparison to men, and when they do it's usually self defense against their violent partners, so it's more shocking to read a story in which a woman is not killing in self defense but rather for enjoyment.


As mentioned earlier in the thread, the article references the movie 'Sweetpea' which is in line with the topic of the femcel, but the article also discusses what a femcel is more generally.

ChicagoLiz wrote:
But then, the person who wrote this article decided to claim 'both sides' by equating this fictional character with a well known real life group: incels.

In real life, there just isn't a large groundswell of women who attack men the way incels attack women. Sure, lots of single heterosexual women can't always find a man they want to date, but they don't lash out online the way we've seen incels do. In real life, you just don't have to be afraid of a single woman the way you do have to be afraid of any man you don't know really well.


I have come across several venomous femcels online, over the years, so I'm not sure I agree that there isn't a significant presence of these woman, who inevitably have a real life as well as an online one.

There are plenty of dangerous women out there to be associated with, but yes, statistically, men commit more crimes that there are to worry about in regards to interpersonal relations, i.e, violent or sexual crimes. I don't think many or any would argue with that.



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27 Oct 2024, 9:03 pm

Last year I was pretty blown away at the level of digging kidology did on -cels. Think Aydin Paladin-level digging. The top one of the three is her research on femceldome.




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blitzkrieg
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27 Oct 2024, 9:07 pm

Thank you for the videos, techstep!

I shall watch these videos at some point. I am glad that they are archived in this thread for my later viewing. :)



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29 Oct 2024, 7:56 pm

old_comedywriter wrote:
Doesn't seem like a real thing. But it does make a good movie plot. It'll be interesting when it comes out. I'm predicting at least 75% on Rotten Tomatoes.
The linked-to article starts off with reviewing fictional literature, and then spins it up into a global phenomenon.

It is as if some random journalist was told to "Write some click-bait", and did.


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03 Nov 2024, 1:04 am

Fnord wrote:
old_comedywriter wrote:
Doesn't seem like a real thing. But it does make a good movie plot. It'll be interesting when it comes out. I'm predicting at least 75% on Rotten Tomatoes.
The linked-to article starts off with reviewing fictional literature, and then spins it up into a global phenomenon.

It is as if some random journalist was told to "Write some click-bait", and did.

I agree. I haven't read the article but the premise sounds like nonsense.



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03 Nov 2024, 2:01 am

oh boy toxic femineity, that is for sure an awful branch of people....like I figure you mean the supposed career women who also will accept nothing less than a man who makes way more than they do. They are independent women who can afford to live alone yet as independent as they are they need the man to make more to take care of them.


and idk I think that's grosss, I am all for someone not wanting to date a lazy but I do hate the idea some people put forth that a career woman who can fend for herself should still seek out a richer man who can provide for them....and lits like if you're so indpendent you provide for yourself, you don't still need a man to take care of you. So your standard should not be 'independent I make my own money roar, but I expect you make more and you pay for everything even though I am independent and can handle myself....I just want you to fund my lifestyle while I s**t on you.

So idk I am aware of some toxic femininity and I don't like it, cause also the toxic women like that also talk down on people like me because I have disability, they try to be like you can't be a real women if you aren't career oriented, and that for sure is really offensive to me. So idk you may hear me b***h more about male on female sexism, but for sure there is toxic femininty to and it sucks to interact with.

LIke I hate to say it but some women are literally the worst sexists.


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blitzkrieg
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03 Nov 2024, 9:38 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
oh boy toxic femineity, that is for sure an awful branch of people....like I figure you mean the supposed career women who also will accept nothing less than a man who makes way more than they do. They are independent women who can afford to live alone yet as independent as they are they need the man to make more to take care of them.


and idk I think that's grosss, I am all for someone not wanting to date a lazy but I do hate the idea some people put forth that a career woman who can fend for herself should still seek out a richer man who can provide for them....and lits like if you're so indpendent you provide for yourself, you don't still need a man to take care of you. So your standard should not be 'independent I make my own money roar, but I expect you make more and you pay for everything even though I am independent and can handle myself....I just want you to fund my lifestyle while I s**t on you.

So idk I am aware of some toxic femininity and I don't like it, cause also the toxic women like that also talk down on people like me because I have disability, they try to be like you can't be a real women if you aren't career oriented, and that for sure is really offensive to me. So idk you may hear me b***h more about male on female sexism, but for sure there is toxic femininty to and it sucks to interact with.

LIke I hate to say it but some women are literally the worst sexists.


I agree! Women can be equally as sexist as men, but some female sexists are not self-aware enough to realize that is what they are.

I always appreciate your posts Sweetleaf, you seem like a down-to-Earth woman with a level head.



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04 Nov 2024, 10:27 pm

Interesting article. Not what I had expected, because when I heard "toxic femininity," my mind immediately went to tradwives.

Sweetleaf wrote:
oh boy toxic femineity, that is for sure an awful branch of people....like I figure you mean the supposed career women who also will accept nothing less than a man who makes way more than they do. They are independent women who can afford to live alone yet as independent as they are they need the man to make more to take care of them.

and idk I think that's grosss, I am all for someone not wanting to date a lazy but I do hate the idea some people put forth that a career woman who can fend for herself should still seek out a richer man who can provide for them....and lits like if you're so indpendent you provide for yourself, you don't still need a man to take care of you. So your standard should not be 'independent I make my own money roar, but I expect you make more and you pay for everything even though I am independent and can handle myself....I just want you to fund my lifestyle while I s**t on you.

So idk I am aware of some toxic femininity and I don't like it, cause also the toxic women like that also talk down on people like me because I have disability, they try to be like you can't be a real women if you aren't career oriented, and that for sure is really offensive to me. So idk you may hear me b***h more about male on female sexism, but for sure there is toxic femininty to and it sucks to interact with.

LIke I hate to say it but some women are literally the worst sexists.


Some women who are hardworking and financially successful would be fine with dating someone who makes less money than them, but don't have many opportunities because men can feel uncomfortable with it and what they think the dynamic says about their masculinity or how society views them. It's also not unheard of for people of both genders to take advantage of others financially in relationships. Dating someone in a similar financial position can make someone feel less concerned about being taken advantage of by someone who is primarily after their money and, in turn, more secure in the relationship.

To be clear, I am not saying that there are not women out there who are motivated by money and are attracted to men who are financially successful. I am just making the point that it's nuanced and there can be other reasons for people's decisions about who they seek out relationships with.



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12 Nov 2024, 8:11 am

blueroses wrote:
Some women who are hardworking and financially successful would be fine with dating someone who makes less money than them, but don't have many opportunities because men can feel uncomfortable with it and what they think the dynamic says about their masculinity or how society views them. It's also not unheard of for people of both genders to take advantage of others financially in relationships. Dating someone in a similar financial position can make someone feel less concerned about being taken advantage of by someone who is primarily after their money and, in turn, more secure in the relationship.

^ This! Back when I was earning more, I couldn't care less what someone else earned. However, I dated one man who turned out to be gay and just with me for money and another who said he liked 'successful women' but would get really nasty if I offered to pay for things as he felt like I was one-upping him. That guy did his best to make me feel like crap and derail my career so he could 'catch up' (as he saw it). Then there are other men I've met via friends or work who I would have dated but they just got weirdly competitive as soon as they found out I wasn't some idiot bimbo that needed rescuing. A lot of men are still raised with this 1800s 'men are the breadwinners' mentality and can't cope with not having financial control.

In hindsight, I maybe would have had more success finding a partner if I'd only dated men who were a lot richer than me. But it's a bit late now.



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12 Nov 2024, 9:11 am

^ I wish I could find a woman who earned more or a lot more than me. That would be a dream.

I totally don't relate to the role of men supposedly having to be the breadwinner in a relationship.