Abhorrence of Christianity?

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Christianity seems to have become a figurative punching bag for some leftist folk.

I have not seen evidence of this at all. A large majority of Americans identify as Christian, including folks on the left. And I haven't seen Christianity treated as a punching bag or denigrated to any significant degree. This idea that Christianity is under siege is a canard invented by the right and is just made up nonsense.

Last edited by bee33 on 16 Nov 2024, 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sorry to continue off topic but... My head is having a hard time with the dimensionality of "left wing anarchist".

Sounds like something a sky news journalist would invent... Oh..

Christians face religious discrimination regularly.

You wouldn't know about that since you are not a Christian, in the same way that a white person doesn't typically feel the effects of racism, because they are not a person of colour.

That is absolutely false in the US. There are parts of the world where it is the case.

People often imply that scrutiny and reasonable criticism amount to hate and discrimination. I don’t believe that human institutions, including religion, should be above scrutiny, but very often, people suggest just that which leads to a lot of unresolved problems in the world. Shutting down inquiry, critical thought, valid criticism, and healthy debate/discourse hinders progress. Looking at the political landscape in the US, I think we’re seeing some of the effects of that, and it will likely worsen over the next few years.

I can commiserate with those who don’t like having their belief system scrutinized or criticized because I didn’t like my beliefs to be questioned back when I was a Christian. Perhaps some of that was due to the fact that I knew they wouldn’t hold up to scrutiny. I struggled with them myself. For me, being a Christian meant that I was constantly fighting an internal battle - a battle against my natural skepticism, a battle that began in early childhood.

That was just my experience. Obviously, others will have different experiences, but I do think that religion is going to continue to be something people talk about and critique due to the power that it wields and the abuses that continuously come to light from religious organizations.

The dude was an anarchist, and he self-described as being left wing, as well as being a supporter of a left-wing party the UK.

The term "left-wing anarchist" seems appropriate, in that case.

From the article:

Yes, western secularists are more concerned about the bear in their house than other bears that are not.

The problem as I see it is that it reminds me of what happens when some Muslims engage in violence. The Right starts asking, "Why don't the rest of the Muslims condemn it".

Well, the fact is that they do. I remember one such case a decade or so back when 500 Muslim clerics signed a statement of condemnation of some newsworthy act of violence or other. But it wasn't widely publicized. So few people knew, and the Far Right took advantage of it.

It's relevance is in it's similarity to the Christian situation. We see the negative stuff (e.g. Christian Nationalist influence on politics), and don't see the 'Good Christians' condemning it.

The 'Good Christians' need to do two things. They first need to understand that we're not necessarily criticizing them.

Second, and in my mind more important, they need to understand 1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?" You're meant to work on yourselves. You're meant to support your fellow Christians in their growth. Point out their errors out of love and concern for their spiritual growth. As for dealing with outsiders, Jesus ate with them, talked with them, healed them, forgave them... all without mentioning gays. Indeed, the term used for the servant of the centurion healed by Jesus is believed to refer to a same sex partner. Jesus healed him anyway. Just as he requested water from a woman he knew to be a serial adulterer. He occasionally corrected their behavior, but he never let it interfere with his actions.

Which brings us to the Christians we do condemn. The one's we do condemn are those whom Jesus was referring to when he said, Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

Characteristically, they dance around what Jesus said in order to avoid it, instead seeking out other verses to build a doctrine on. After everything he said about money, from the love of money is the root of all evil, to don't store treasures on earth where moth and rust will corrupt, to it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle that a rich man to get into heaven... there are prosperity churches that push the doctrine of god wants you to be rich on earth.

And after Jesus said to not leven their bread with the yeast of the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Herod (i.e. Politics), after Jesus rejected Satan's temptation to own the world and its kingdoms, and after Jesus avoided this route when facing the cross and the local rulers tried to accuse him of political interference but he denied it, 1 John 2:15 "Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them," ... we have the Christian nationalists trying to take over and push their Christless religion on everyone else.

For some reason, they've clipped Matthew 7:12 from "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets", down to "So in everything, do to others what you would..."

And what they would is to control and condemn. Not themselves as Jesus commanded. But others. So we have politically influential pastors who are thrice divorced and adulterers (issues Jesus mentioned), causing problems for the LGBTQ+ community (didn't mention). Why? Because it's 'othering'. They'll claim it's an abomination. Well, there are 68 biblical abominations. These pork eating, mixed cloth wearing, divorced adulterers only care about one.

Women will die due to the influence they pushed on women's reproductive health law. Some already have.

These heretics are gaining in power and forcing their desires on non-Christians and we are angry.

If you're not one of 'those Christians', is it evident? If you're not part of the problem, then we're not angry with you. But the USA is undergoing a change at the moment. There will be a lot of tension. A lot of anger. And a certain 'Christian' demographic is front and center of that strife. A lot of people will suffer because of the shenanigans they're trying to pull. They're the flag that is most visible in Christendom now.

Maybe the 'Good Christians' need to shut that down.

I, by no means, abhor all Christians. There are plenty of good Christians in my life. My problem is that some really bad ones have seized control of my country's government. These people are all rotten to the core, they only care about money and controlling every detail about everyone's lives.

I have taken a broad look at Christianity as a whole, and I honestly do not think that the good outweighs the bad. There are so many problems and the problems are not limited to the bad followers, they are straight from the Bible itself. It is a barbaric text which treats women as property, gives instructions for slavery instead of condemning it and justifies genocide.

I'm not saying all of the problems of right wing Christianity in my nation are straight from the Bible, but the foundation is often there. And no one ever holds them accountable, when they ignore the parts of the Bible that are good only for the parts that are bad. They have lots of money and influence and have controlled the narrative for decades. They are considered Biblical literalists and fundamentalists all while they ignore so many of the verses - oftentimes the ones that are actually morally good.

Forgive me for being a bit angry at my oppressors. I formerly was a Christian. As I said, I have good examples of Christianity in my life, but the larger negative effect is just too big to be overcome. In fact, I'm away from the good Christians in my life because I had to leave my home state because of Christofascists in the government. Kinda makes my point for me, doesn't it?

And don't forget it's even worse than that - conservative churches are rife with sexual abuse, oftentimes towards minors. The president-elect that these holier-than-thou types have foisted upon us is a rapist who bragged about going into dressing rooms at pageants to check out girls naked. The Attorney General is also very likely a sex predator. It's not just politicians... It's churches. The Southern Baptists, the Catholic church, the Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. they all have demonstrated large problems with abuse within.

And yet they dare to say that they are to be our "protectors" against immigrants and LGBT people (who are largely just innocent people living their lives). It makes me absolutely sick to my stomach. It fills me with righteous indignation. It's absolutely evil.

To Harmonie: I love the word christofascists

In some parts of the world, yes. In China, yes. In Islamist countries, yes.

But in Western countries? If so, please give some specific examples of what you mean by religious discrimination against Christians in Western countries.

Here in the U.S.A., there are all too many Christian leaders who complain about being "persecuted" -- but their idea of being "persecuted" is being disapproved of for persecuting others (e.g. LGBTQ people).

This is what I hear from atheists online, complaints about what churches are doing in politics. There is a history that is much like the rest of human history, lamentable in some ways.

I am referring to the individual level. What is there in this ancient cultural artifact that can be made use of?

Contemporary Christian music was the stepping stone, the gateway drug. On long trips, when I grew bored with the rock music stations that repeated the same old songs over and over, I tried listening to Christian station, just to see what the other side was up to. Those stupid Christians! What do they know!

The songs were ones I had not heard before. They are not played on the rock stations even though they have the same beats, the same rhythm. They get censored, because they do not conform to the subject matter permitted by rock stations, which only play songs about hate, lust, love, greed, fear, and violence.

Christian rock is cheerful and uplifting and does not raise up base desires or base thoughts. Today, I play it at home alone to break out of negative thinking patterns. The world is hard, life is difficult, Christian music says that there is someone that cares about us. That is better than thinking that no cares. No one cares may be the truth and may be real. But it is not a helpful observation and will not result in peace.

There are some really good paintings depicting martyrs & scenes from the Bible. There was a time when I would see such art in a museum, and the only thing I could think about was the political threat from right-wing churches and how this was part of the hostile tribe. The only thing I felt was loathing or dread of the other tribe. Now I am free of that prejudice. I appreciate the art for what it is and the sense in which it was made.

I found through experiment the Cross has power when worn. I put it on, concealed under my shirt, not visible to others, but I know it is there. I have the sense it influences my behavior throughout the day in a subtle manner. I like to wear it on days that I know will be challenging just to know I am not alone. Because otherwise, I am very alone. No one is on my side.

The final benefit consists of prayer. Christianity allows for direct communication with the Diety through prayer. It is possible to appeal to the Deity to process emotional crisis and personal problems such as alcoholism. It is simple as bowing my head, closing my eyes and talking aloud or in my thoughts. This has potency and is not without value. There are systems in the brain that light up and begin working when I pray. It is just the way that the brain is wired.

I have not read the Bible in over forty years. I will eventually get around to it when I retire. I don't think it is necessary to read the Bible to get value from Christian practices and systems.

I also don't think that church is necessary. I have tried several churches. I feel the same way in them that I do in other group settings, uncomfortable, and the tithing and offering demand makes me more uncomfortable. I have never experienced an interesting sermon or service before. Perhaps it would be different if I had someone to go with me, but going alone is rather lonely. I do not feel any closer to God in a church, probably less close. I think church is useful for NTs, they need the social reinforcement to maintain their faith.

Yes beause MAGA protesters are always so much more peaceful... Also antifa isn't even a group, it just literally people who oppose fascism. I am an antifa, but I have never taken part in a violent protest, I am just anti fascist which is what antifa means, is people who don't like fascism.

Well maybe Christians should actually practice being Christ like, It would mean some of them have to let go of their hypocrisy when they aren't at church on Sunday and actully practice what they preach. So many though act like the idea of being christ like is alien to them, and it's like how...I thought you were a Christian.

Fellow used to be a Christian here, so I understand that kind of thing, like idk christians can talk a lot but if they are voting for trump and being stupid it's hard not to be frustrated with them. But like yeah I was a christian growing up but I am not a Christian now because I didn't like the hypocrisy and such. and now believing in God feels like believing in the easter bunny or Santa that don't actually exist. But yeah idk good Christians, bad Christians, maybe it is better to just get rid of religion all together...all religion not just Christianity because they are all actually all bad. Religion is useless for progress.