Rule-bound religion & Spirituality

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As a natural philosopher and as a writer with autism, I am interested to hear from people with autism who have a believe in God, or spiritual practice, and to hear your struggles within your faith/spiritual journey.

I put this question to everyone regardless of faith tradition or none for that matter.

For example

Would you say that you are more held in the routine and order of religion / ceremony over the actual spiritual experience of awe and wonder?

How can you overcome the limitations of your rational mind, and enter into the heart of things? Do you at all desire this?

I know in myself, I love the routine, order, and intensity of focus that my faith tradition offers me, but without my right-brained dominance (ever so slightly so) I would I am sure, like my quote below, take more interest in the menu over the meal. The routine over the essence. The head over the heart.

Many of us with autism, myself v much included, suffer from our black and white thinking. Which I think can greatly hinder a more non-dualistic and integrated spirituality, more natural to the eastern mind. As a result, I would be deeply interested to hear from people with autism who practice Zen, or are inspired by Tao or Buddhism.


Chris

I am very aware of facts. As a result, although I was raised Catholic and consider myself a former pagan, only the eastern religions make any sort of sense. They seem to be more about lifestyle choice than actual religion, which I can respect.

Lately, I've been demanding proof, or at least unlikely coincidence. In its general absence, something like Buddhism is all that I could logically follow. It is not based on statement of fact that has no support.

Ive always been very turned off by the routines of religion which is why I liked the Thich Nhat Hanh zen stuff rather than the tibetian which has loads of ritual. My dad was a catholic (ex comunicated lol) and I found the rituals bizarre and un logical, esp when Jesus said to not do fancy stuff or make a fuss. But my mums c of e church was pretty similar.

My dad was a ardant athiest stalinist/mowist so I was brought up with his ideas drummed into me that we are all that is, religion is opion of the people etc Haveing met people brought up as jehovas witnesses who later stopped being religious but still believed in demons and things, made me think how we are brought up really conditions the mind. No matter how hard I try the atheism of my childhood always comes through and Im unable to see beyond reality, I think the equipment to believe is not there.

However I love the zen and meditation and do have a strong feeling of interbeing and non self which Im sure is due to the lack of theory of mind of autism ha ha.

will write more later off to school run now xxxx

Last edited by lotusblossom on 02 Mar 2010, 5:05 am, edited 2 times in total.

Well, you could say rule bound or you could say spiritual discipline. I would love to feel the awe and mystical feelings etc. but I don't seem capable of such. I can "feel" God during prayer maybe once or twice a decade. Wonderful gifts, those experiences, but I've learned not to look for it and to walk by faith instead.

thank you everyone so far, I find
this very interesting.

Chris

I think my literalism and rule boundness does have an effect as its very rule bound to be so put off christianity by people not doing what Jesus said (simple pray, poverty etc). Im very drawn to simplicity hence the Thich stuff, I like prayer/mediation and being peaceful and poverty and simple food (not so good at the engageing with society though so fall down on the engaged buddhism on that point, work better as a hermit).

I dont like the lack of flexibility in a lot of things though, when they find they are not good, for example, the marxist model is not flexible when it comes to the environment and was very industrial. Stalin was not able to change his ideas about agriculture and centralisation, despite them going wrong, where as Fidel was able to incorperate permaculture and co operatives when the oil embargo made his previous plans less workable, he was able to be flexible and change his ideas to what was more effective.

However I do not like the christians church useing this 'flexability' idea to excuse war and being rich after Constantine. I heard a bishop on the radio say that Jesus was 'very akward' in his attitude to war, and that in reality 'war was more complicated than this and often necersary'. hmm.

Ive just bought Thichs book, 'Jesus and Buddha as brothers' and will let you know my thoughts on that as soon as its read.

love to you dear Chris xxx

Nobody in my family had anything to do with religion and the only rituals we had were the Christmas gift giving and the distribution of candy eggs and chocolate at Easter. When I was a child I was very surprised any of these had anything to do with anything beyond fun and appreciation. The only deep feeling I have is for individual people and especially animals and all life which I find fascinating and beautiful. God has nothing to do with it.

I disagree with aspergers being too left brained to be spiritual.

I find that aspergers allows me to better grasp concepts such as having no self, no ego. Especially when doing various psychedelic drugs such as LSD or mushrooms which have been taken by thousands of people for spiritual purposes.

this is a very big thing in my life. thanks for bringing it up. also a stumbling block here at WP for me, at times, this far ...

my dad was a fundamentalist scientist (zoologist) and also in my view a scientism-ist. firmly convinced any truth there was was to be found within "science" .. in that spirit i started at the university studying math and physics. i soon felt i discovered "religion" and "science" were equally "true" .. fact based .. faith based .. (what little I've understood of Feyerabend's thoughts on "science" appeals alot to me, btw)

several years later .. lots of problems .. making me do therapy a lot .. i felt a need to take out a hymnal and read prayers .. i did and ever since have felt God very real and important in my life ..

some more years later i had a very major emotional crisis .. i feel God saved my life there .. I feel it is thanks to Him i even exist these days ..

Yet, i have also very intense experiences with meditation and so forth .. I suppose both Hinduism, Buddhism and Daoism in a manner of speaking. Though I never belonged to any congregation or anything. All this done on my own, privately.

So, i feel i am a Christian. Yet also feel meditation is absolutely crucial to whatever degree of sanity i can claim I'm addicted to meditation, in fact. do it daily, a lot. Yet feel the concern is of course not if "I believe in God". to me it is obviously if He believes in me that is the issue. i may also feel it is about as natural to combine "faiths" as it is to combine say .. math and chemistry .. what's the problem? why not? if i like and need this piece of thinking or instruction over here .. and then this other piece over there .. of course i use both .. to what degree i like and need to.

Even if I dont like the wording of it cause its implicating that normal atheist are no ethical. I think the rituals of workship can over a lot consolence and stability to some bodys mind.

Personally i think spiritualism with out any mandatory compulsions of workship are simply the lazy mans religion, you think your aware of the existenz of some kind of personified moral ethinity greater than you and the only thing you do about it is burning scented incences.

I think this kind of spirituallity is simply some kind of primitive superstition, there is no religion wich does not asks to overcome you self to a certain point. Its like cheating at an Internet Intellegence test cheating your self for an empty feeling of achievment.

My struggles within my spiritual journey would fill many volumes! And there's still a long, long way to go....


On the surface, definitely *less* held in routine and ritual. I tend towards those practices with little, if any ritual. And I'm so distracted, I can go weeks forgetting to do my daily exercise! I've practiced several disciplines, at the moment I really only have one, which is a non-dual/advaita/sufism kind of blend. However, I do feel it best to get involved and study several approaches to avoid getting stuck in the dogma of one.

I guess my core belief is that from Buddha to Eckart Tolle, via Bill Hicks(!) and a thousand nameless ones, some human beings have experienced a different state, something commonly called enlightenment/awakening/liberation etc etc etc The problem is that this experience is indescribable in words. And although the destination is the same, we all start from very different points due to our unique genetic dispositions, cultural influences, life fortunes. So the route there is different for everyone and all we can do is take clues and read the vague signposts that those people left. In many cases, they had fanatical followers who, while sincere, misinterpreted what the masters said and effectively laid the foundation for the mass religious movements that ironically ensure that the masses of practitioners remain unenlighted and asleep as they dogmatically cling to every mistranslated-misunderstood word.



Again, it may be different for everyone. I have occasionally had some 'peak' experiences (none that lasted forever, sadly!), and looking back there does seem to be a pattern. Starting with a long time of negative feelings, depression, being subject to unfortunate circumstances. If I try and keep my awareness and meditation practice going through this, highten awareness of the body and each moment, calm, get away from the distraction out there and turn inwards, eventually something 'clicks'. To say the troubles fall away is an understatement, it's as if my whole *mind* has fallen away I think this could be what you mean by 'entering into the heart of things'.
They often say "the mind is a problem solving machine". Guess what produced the problems in the first place?


Yes, that's been a big part of my struggle too. Sometimes it feels as if the hold of the analytical mind is loosening over time. Maybe that's a natural side effect of growing older?


My spiritual path kind of parallelled my AS path. In that even with only a little detachment, I saw much more how 'unusual' I was manifesting, compared to others. In the spiritual group I'm in, the others are all NT but all seem to have more than the usual tragedies in life. Everyday life that captures the total being of the majority, hasn't fulfilled for us, so we look for something else. With me, I can directly attribute my interest to a lifetime of AS before AS was known. Underachieving at everything. So many more problems, troubles and rejections than 'happy' things happening. If success and popularity had just fallen into my lap, I would not be typing this message.....

When I've had some 'AHA' moments, I've felt with total conviction, how everything my mind judged as a 'problem' or 'failure' was actually a gift helping me towards something far more precious than material pleasures. So AS may be both an advantage and a disadvantage. It seems to help guarantee loneliness and isolation from the masses, resulting in a solitude that gives you a lifetime to ponder such things....

In my experience, it got to the point where I believed the following to be true about who God is:

"In his hand is the life of every living thing and the breath of all mankind." (Job 12:10)

and elsewhere:

"The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything." (Acts 17:24-25)

I believe God is the eternal and loving Provider, but I also believe we cannot receive the fullness of that love until we personally invite Him into our heart.

I believe it is a Love we are incapable of earning or repaying, and that Christ died on a cross to give it.

Last edited by Maranatha on 03 Mar 2010, 4:06 pm, edited 5 times in total.

Bringing it back to your question, I guess it's not so 'formalized' as with a particular ceremony or method. It's basically a genuine interest in the Bible and walking with my heart in the Lord's hands. It is an awesome and wonderful journey. I know He's got my steps established in both the good times and in the trials.

I appreciate the questions you're asking in this thread, am interested to hear other folks experiences as well .

Last edited by Maranatha on 03 Mar 2010, 4:15 pm, edited 11 times in total.

My early childhood had little, to no, religious activity (commercialized versions of Christmas and Easter aside). However, my father studied at a seminary as a young man and began a journey into Buddhism and Zen that has now encompassed his lifestyle (he is a zen priest).

I have long desired a belief in something beyond that which I can see or can be explained. I have sought to belong to a specific religion ( I believe many religious tenants to be beneficial, and have studied various releigions) but I have never gotten far in the teachings of a religion because one of the first steps in most religions is a leap of faith that I cannot seem to make.

He loves you too, Sand.