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MasterJedi
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21 Dec 2010, 7:44 pm

do you believe in the gods or goddesses of any pantheon that came before christ (if you're among one of the christian denominations)?



skafather84
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21 Dec 2010, 8:05 pm

Everyone is born atheist.


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21 Dec 2010, 8:14 pm

MasterJedi wrote:
do you believe in the gods or goddesses of any pantheon that came before christ (if you're among one of the christian denominations)?


george bernard shaw said to priest "you dont believe in the gods of ancient greece and rome. I just believe in one fewer god than you do... and I dont believe in him for the same reason that you give for not believing in the gods you dont beleive in."



Philologos
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21 Dec 2010, 9:53 pm

skafather84 wrote:
Everyone is born atheist.


No. Agnostic - maybe - I don't remember what I knew or be;ieved when I was born.

True, though, that no one is born Christian, Buddhist, Muslim.

Funny thing though - you can be a Jew at birth.



skafather84
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21 Dec 2010, 10:02 pm

Philologos wrote:
you can be a Jew at birth.



No, it's still just silly religious laws that were smart enough to imply that someone was a part of a race rather than just an abstract belief system. If you get into the actual genetics of it all, it's absolutely a silly idea to consider almost anyone to be any one race at birth.


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MasterJedi
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21 Dec 2010, 10:07 pm

a circumcised penis does not a Jew make.



skafather84
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21 Dec 2010, 10:12 pm

MasterJedi wrote:
a circumcised penis does not a Jew make.


Neither does a mother with the title "Jew". At least not genetically. Makes it part of you, but certainly not the full genealogical story.


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Philologos
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21 Dec 2010, 10:21 pm

I will agree to the extent that both nationality and race are constructs based on human and essentially arbitrary definitions.

So is being human - or a mammal.

But - given that those definitions exist in the scientific community and in the laws of various lands, you can be born a mammal and a primate and a human and a Caucasian and British and a royal personage.



MasterJedi
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21 Dec 2010, 10:22 pm

I've often wondered what makes a person look Semitic. I've never though of "Jewish" a s a race before but to see some Jews, most have distinguishing features. And no, it's not racist to think that. It's an actual thing. Racist would be saying all black people look alike when clearly they don't. I'm saying some Jews have distinctive features in common. I'm wondering where that comes from.



MONKEY
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22 Dec 2010, 8:03 am

You're all atheists towards all gods accept for your own.
If you're religious that is.


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MONKEY
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22 Dec 2010, 8:06 am

MasterJedi wrote:
I've often wondered what makes a person look Semitic. I've never though of "Jewish" a s a race before but to see some Jews, most have distinguishing features. And no, it's not racist to think that. It's an actual thing. Racist would be saying all black people look alike when clearly they don't. I'm saying some Jews have distinctive features in common. I'm wondering where that comes from.


It could be because of middle eastern heritage I'm guessing. Some time in the past people from middle eastern countries emigrated to places like America and took their religion with them. So jewish features = middle eastern features.


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22 Dec 2010, 8:36 am

MasterJedi wrote:
I've often wondered what makes a person look Semitic. I've never though of "Jewish" a s a race before but to see some Jews, most have distinguishing features. And no, it's not racist to think that. It's an actual thing. Racist would be saying all black people look alike when clearly they don't. I'm saying some Jews have distinctive features in common. I'm wondering where that comes from.

Abraham, I suspect.


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Kon
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22 Dec 2010, 11:28 am

I can see 2 reasons why a lot of people might be inclined to believe in some type of "creative" force (or God or whatever):

1. To try to explain why reality exists. It seems unintuitive to be unanswerable or meaningless: that reality "just exists" requiring no further explanation.

2. Even with the most comprehensive cosmological theories there seems something that is missing. For example take Tegmark's attempt at a TOE (Theory of Everything). It still leaves unanswered a number of deep philosophical questions. First, what good does it do to "anthropically" explain this universe in terms of an metauniverse unless one can explain where the metauniverse came from? "

Of course if there was an "external" creator responsible for reality, doesn't the "existence" of a creator itself cause similar problems and leads to even more incomprehensibility.

The only thing that makes sense to me is the concept of cognitive closure:

Consider an ape, which is arguably over 95% genetically similar to us. Consider what their understanding of the universe is compared to ours. They could never understand what we are capable of: science, biology, physics, abstract algebra, etc. We are qualitatively different, so we think. Assume that even our cognitive abilities are only slightly more advanced than an ape's. Of course, from our perspective it doesn't appear that way. Assume reality is extremely complex. The ape's mind might be able to understand/pick up .001% of it. The human mind may have access to about .01% of it. Big improvement but still a miniscule part of all of reality/totality of "true" theories. Personally, I like C. McGinn's concept of cognitive closure. We assume it in all other organisms/animals. It would be surprising if we were any different:

Cognitive closure refers to the possibility that certain problems cannot be explained by the human mind. In philosophy of science some have adopted the position that some problems are forever outstanding, and not because their solutions do not exist, but rather because the solutions cannot be properly conceived. This philosophical position is also sometimes called transcendental naturalism, anti-constructive naturalism, or New Mysterianism. It proposes that the human mind is unavoidably biased, or "closed" in some areas of thinking, and so these areas then are forever mysteries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_ ... philosophy)
http://art-mind.org/review/IMG/pdf/McGi ... blem_M.pdf



Philologos
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22 Dec 2010, 11:55 am

MasterJedi:

please to distinguish:

pagan

infidel

heretic

schismatic

atheist



skafather84
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22 Dec 2010, 12:15 pm

MasterJedi wrote:
I've often wondered what makes a person look Semitic. I've never though of "Jewish" a s a race before but to see some Jews, most have distinguishing features. And no, it's not racist to think that. It's an actual thing. Racist would be saying all black people look alike when clearly they don't. I'm saying some Jews have distinctive features in common. I'm wondering where that comes from.



Regional thing. Just like how Mediterranean people all have similar features or how Anglos or Slavs look similar.


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MasterJedi
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22 Dec 2010, 12:46 pm

Philologos wrote:
MasterJedi:

please to distinguish:

pagan
Polytheistic. Gods or deities for just about everything including events and feelings.

infidel
In the Muslim or Islamic faith(s), one who speaks ill of a religion or, demigod or deity

heretic
In Christian religions, one who speaks ill of or acts against the church as a ruling body

schismatic
no clue

atheist
No belief in god(s) or deities