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What are the possible ramifications of the shooting in AZ?

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PM
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09 Jan 2011, 2:14 am

I think the guy that did it let the conservative rhetoric in the media go to his head.

My thoughts on possible ramifications:

1. If the guy was Tea Party, or the Tea party was involved in any way, they may have signed their own death warrant.

2. Possible censoring of the News Media, specifically Fox News.

3. Some form of Gun Control.

What do you think America?



Jacoby
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09 Jan 2011, 2:19 am

For what it's worth, the guy was radical leftist according to people who use to know him.

Move a long now, nothing to see here



Sand
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09 Jan 2011, 2:25 am

Jacoby wrote:
For what it's worth, the guy was radical leftist according to people who use to know him.

Move a long now, nothing to see here


According to the NY Times he was badly mentally disturbed and his political leanings had little to do with his behavior, See http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/po ... er.html?hp



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09 Jan 2011, 2:33 am

Sand wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
For what it's worth, the guy was radical leftist according to people who use to know him.

Move a long now, nothing to see here


According to the NY Times he was badly mentally disturbed and his political leanings had little to do with his behavior, See http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/po ... er.html?hp


I agree, I'm just pointing out the facts here. The rush to judgment over this is really annoying me. It's like people got excited that they could pin something on the Tea Party or Sarah Palin. It's Joe Stack all over again.

I looked at his youtube videos, they were completely incoherent. This man was clearly mentally ill. It's a tragedy that no one saw this coming.



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09 Jan 2011, 8:02 am

Jacoby wrote:
I looked at his youtube videos, they were completely incoherent. This man was clearly mentally ill.

Wait, are we talking about Glenn Beck here? :lol:

OK, in all seriousness, no, it would not be appropriate to say that this is in any way Palin's or Fox's "fault," much less to censor the media based on whatever tenuous connection there might be. There could be a serious and legitimate conversation over the wisdom/responsibility of overblown rhetoric from major figures in the media, especially when it includes implicit or explicit violent imagery, but at the end of the day this is America and we don't censor.


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09 Jan 2011, 9:41 am

PM, why is every act of violence the fault of conservatives or the Tea Party.? Should they simply give up their right to free speech, assembly, and political lobbying so as not offend the socialist left? Does the Tea Party having free speech cause violence? Let's give up all our rights so as not to possibly cause harm to a leftist politician. Perhaps we should have no rights at all so as not to offend or harm anyone?
What is wrong with the Tea Party and why do we assume they are racist.? Now, as for Republicans, they are politicians and in many ways no better than Democrats. As for conservatives, I don't agree with everything they say. I disagree that all violence is their fault. Racism was created by Democrats and Woodrow Wilson was openly racist against blacks and Asians while being a leftist. After the 60s the leftists took up pretending to be not racist.
This recent violence is simply part of life, some people are just crazy. There was plenty of assassinations of political figures in Europe by political zealots and screwballs throughout the 20th century despite guns being illegal.



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09 Jan 2011, 9:53 am

This is the Younited States of America, trolls.

If I want to buy a gun and shoot someone, I can do it.



PM
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09 Jan 2011, 10:17 am

TenFaces wrote:
PM, why is every act of violence the fault of conservatives or the Tea Party.? Should they simply give up their right to free speech, assembly, and political lobbying so as not offend the socialist left? Does the Tea Party having free speech cause violence? Let's give up all our rights so as not to possibly cause harm to a leftist politician. Perhaps we should have no rights at all so as not to offend or harm anyone?
What is wrong with the Tea Party and why do we assume they are racist.? Now, as for Republicans, they are politicians and in many ways no better than Democrats. As for conservatives, I don't agree with everything they say. I disagree that all violence is their fault. Racism was created by Democrats and Woodrow Wilson was openly racist against blacks and Asians while being a leftist. After the 60s the leftists took up pretending to be not racist.
This recent violence is simply part of life, some people are just crazy. There was plenty of assassinations of political figures in Europe by political zealots and screwballs throughout the 20th century despite guns being illegal.


I was in no way implying someone from the Tea Party did this, the evidence at the time I posted this pointed to someone in the Tea Party, new evidence suggests otherwise. It seems the guy was just a lone nut. Every has a right to free speech, even the Tea Party. My take on the Tea Party, A bunch of angry rich people. The only reason they would be considered racist is their timing. By that I mean, popping up out of nowhere a month after Obama was sworn in. I don't want to see any of my list happen, because if any of the three happened, the Constitution would be violated.



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09 Jan 2011, 10:50 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE2Vdcv9Q_o[/youtube]



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09 Jan 2011, 11:01 am

PM wrote:
I was in no way implying someone from the Tea Party did this, the evidence at the time I posted this pointed to someone in the Tea Party, new evidence suggests otherwise. It seems the guy was just a lone nut. Every has a right to free speech, even the Tea Party. My take on the Tea Party, A bunch of angry rich people. The only reason they would be considered racist is their timing. By that I mean, popping up out of nowhere a month after Obama was sworn in. I don't want to see any of my list happen, because if any of the three happened, the Constitution would be violated.


The Tea Party is primarily a middle class movement. Perhaps some rich types have latched on for reasons of expedience but the Tea Party had a middle class libertarian inclined origin. It has been hijacked by right wind republicans and to some extent nasty corporate interests.

This may come as a shock to you, but there are plenty or ordinary (i.e. middle class) folks who have had government interference with their lives up to their nostrils. Not everybody loves government. Government is a necessary evil, which makes it an evil.

The only thing worse than government is not government at all.

There are no Good Governments (and there never were). There are only Bad Governments and Worse Governments.

ruveyn



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09 Jan 2011, 11:45 am

It's honestly hard to say what goes on in the mind of a delusional person. Maybe some conservative rhetoric influenced him or maybe he's just a nut-job. I'm leaning towards more he was just a nut-job.

I think what will happen is more debate about gun control and access to to guns by mentally ill persons. Same sort of thing happened in VA after the VA Tech shootings.


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09 Jan 2011, 11:59 am

ruveyn wrote:
PM wrote:
I was in no way implying someone from the Tea Party did this, the evidence at the time I posted this pointed to someone in the Tea Party, new evidence suggests otherwise. It seems the guy was just a lone nut. Every has a right to free speech, even the Tea Party. My take on the Tea Party, A bunch of angry rich people. The only reason they would be considered racist is their timing. By that I mean, popping up out of nowhere a month after Obama was sworn in. I don't want to see any of my list happen, because if any of the three happened, the Constitution would be violated.


The Tea Party is primarily a middle class movement. Perhaps some rich types have latched on for reasons of expedience but the Tea Party had a middle class libertarian inclined origin. It has been hijacked by right wind republicans and to some extent nasty corporate interests.

This may come as a shock to you, but there are plenty or ordinary (i.e. middle class) folks who have had government interference with their lives up to their nostrils. Not everybody loves government. Government is a necessary evil, which makes it an evil.

The only thing worse than government is not government at all.

There are no Good Governments (and there never were). There are only Bad Governments and Worse Governments.

ruveyn
Exactly. My parents have always been small business owners and excessive government regulations hurt their business too. And this guy is a plain looney, it doesn't matter whether he leaned left or right. Most left and right wingers are sane enough not to resort to s**t like this.



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09 Jan 2011, 12:09 pm

Jacoby wrote:
I looked at his youtube videos, they were completely incoherent. This man was clearly mentally ill. It's a tragedy that no one saw this coming.


Yeah. Very unorganized thoughts. Maybe schizophrenic? Gun control advocates will run with this one.


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ruveyn
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09 Jan 2011, 12:27 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
I looked at his youtube videos, they were completely incoherent. This man was clearly mentally ill. It's a tragedy that no one saw this coming.


Yeah. Very unorganized thoughts. Maybe schizophrenic? Gun control advocates will run with this one.


Thank G-D the nutter wasn't Jewish!

ruveyn



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09 Jan 2011, 1:51 pm

To be honest, I see nothing but rhetoric falling out from this.

Censorship, gun control and the demise of the Tea Party are all non starters. Perhaps the Tea Party will think twice about the use of crosshair graphics in advertising, but that's about it.

From my perspective, the real issue is the recognition, diagnosis and treatment of mental illness. Will states be moved to spend more money on services for people with mental illness? I think that they can barely afford to spend what they are spending now, let alone making any improvements.

It is a tragedy that people were killed and wounded. The tragedy is compounded by the profile of the people involved. But the full scope of the tragedy will be laid bare when nothing is learned from it.


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09 Jan 2011, 1:59 pm

visagrunt wrote:
From my perspective, the real issue is the recognition, diagnosis and treatment of mental illness. Will states be moved to spend more money on services for people with mental illness? I think that they can barely afford to spend what they are spending now, let alone making any improvements.

It is a tragedy that people were killed and wounded. The tragedy is compounded by the profile of the people involved. But the full scope of the tragedy will be laid bare when nothing is learned from it.
Yes exactly, that's the root of the issue.