Christian brothers and sisters,let's gather here!

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Czeslaw_Kowalski
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30 Apr 2012, 3:56 am

Jews are also welcome.
Let's gather and discuss.

Nowadays,due to widespread Atheism and secularization,the moral standards all over the world is falling very quickly and many social problems began to appear.Let's discuss these things.



Last edited by Czeslaw_Kowalski on 30 Apr 2012, 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Grebels
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30 Apr 2012, 7:09 am

What is there to talk about? You will have to start the ball rolling.



Czeslaw_Kowalski
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30 Apr 2012, 7:48 am

Grebels wrote:
What is there to talk about? You will have to start the ball rolling.


Thank you very much!It has started.The problem is about spread of Atheism and moral problems.

In the United States,an average non-religious person are 20% more likely to go to jail than an average Christian.



Grebels
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30 Apr 2012, 8:01 am

OK, now what do you think the Church should be these days? I mean is it the people's fault they just aren't buying in to Christianity so much these days? I come from the UK and things probably do tend to be different from the US.



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30 Apr 2012, 8:07 am

Is your primary concern keeping people out of jail, or keeping them out of Hell?



Jono
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30 Apr 2012, 8:09 am

Czeslaw_Kowalski wrote:
Jews are also welcome.
Let's gather and discuss.

Nowadays,due to widespread Atheism and secularization,the moral standards all over the world is falling very quickly and many social problems began to appear.Let's discuss these things.


Nonsense, the bible is not necessarily a good source of morals.



Lord_Gareth
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30 Apr 2012, 8:21 am

Czeslaw_Kowalski wrote:
Grebels wrote:
What is there to talk about? You will have to start the ball rolling.


Thank you very much!It has started.The problem is about spread of Atheism and moral problems.

In the United States,an average non-religious person are 20% more likely to go to jail than an average Christian.


As an atheist, I have a rather vested personal (and a rather amused professional) interest in bringing you this message: [Citation Needed]


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Grebels
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30 Apr 2012, 8:23 am

YippySkippy wrote:
Is your primary concern keeping people out of jail, or keeping them out of Hell?


Putting some people in jail drives them to desperation so they become Christians. Then again, they might have better chances if they are shown the way to keep out of jail.



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30 Apr 2012, 8:23 am

Czeslaw_Kowalski wrote:
Jews are also welcome.


How tolerant of you! :)



Czeslaw_Kowalski
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30 Apr 2012, 9:35 am

Grebels wrote:
OK, now what do you think the Church should be these days? I mean is it the people's fault they just aren't buying in to Christianity so much these days? I come from the UK and things probably do tend to be different from the US.


I actually come from PR China although I use a Polish nickname because Eastern European history is a part of my peculiar interests.(I also love African history.)Atheism contributed to many social problems here as well as in the modern West.I also post on love-shy.com and other forums and find that some social problems are severe,especially to us Aspies.

I used to read wikipedian articles frequently and didn't go to forums before December,2011.At that time,I thought that the West is still largely Christian until I posted my first religious thread here three months ago:"Results of Atheism" and debated two Atheists for several hours.After that I began to go to other forums and find out that things are not what I think of.The West is mostly secularized,especially Belgium,Neatherlands as well as Sweden.

There are many social aspects of Atheism,some have much to do with us Aspies:Social rules in non-religious societies are usually more complicated than those in religious ones.That's why Aspies in non-religious societies fit in harder.Moral standard is another essential issue.In non-religious societies moral standards are relatively low.Then those with higher moral standards,especially Aspies,might suffer.There are many other results of secularization of societies and many of them are not very benign.



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30 Apr 2012, 9:44 am

Czeslaw_Kowalski wrote:
In the United States,an average non-religious person are 20% more likely to go to jail than an average Christian.


Quote:
During 10 years in Sing-Sing, those executed for murder were 65% Catholics, 26% Protestants, 6% Hebrew, 2% Pagan, and less than 1/3 of 1% non-religious.

Steiner and Swancara surveyed Canadian prisons and found 1,294 Catholics, 435 Anglicans, 241 Methodists, 135 Baptists, and 1 Unitarian.

Surveyed Massachusetts reformatories found every inmate religious, carefully herded by chaplins. In Joliet, there were 2,888 Catholics, 1,020 Baptists, 617 Methodists and 0 non-religious. In Sing-Sing, there were 1,553 total inmates with 855 of them Catholics (over half), 518 Protestants, 177 Jews and 8 non-religious.
...

Steiner first surveyed 27 states, and found 19,400 Christians, 5,000 with no preference, and only 3 Agnostics (one each in Connecticut, New Hampshire, and Illinois). In one 29-state survey, Steiner found 15 unbelievers, Spiritualists, Theosophists, Deists, Pantheists and 1 Agnostic among nearly 83,000 inmates. Calling all 15 "anti-christians" made it one half person to each state. Elmira reformatory overshadowed all, with nearly 31,000 inmates, including 15,694 Catholics (half), and 10,968 Protestants, 4,000 Jews, 325 refusing to answer, and 0 unbelievers.

Source: http://www.skeptictank.org/files/american/prison.htm

Also quite interesting:

Quote:
Several weeks ago, a ground-breaking study on religious belief and social well-being was published in the Journal of Religion & Society. Comparing 18 prosperous democracies from the U.S. to New Zealand, author Gregory S Paul quietly demolished the myth that faith strengthens society.

Drawing on a wide range of studies to cross-match faith – measured by belief in God and acceptance of evolution – with homicide and intimate behavior, Paul found that secular societies have lower rates of violence and teenage pregnancy than societies where many people profess belief in God.

Top of the class, in both atheism and good behavior, come the Japanese. Over eighty percent accept evolution and fewer than ten percent are certain that God exists. Despite its size – over a hundred million people – Japan is one of the least crime-prone countries in the world. It also has the lowest rates of teenage pregnancy of any developed nation.

(Teenage pregnancy has less tragic consequences than violence but it is usually unwanted, and it is frequently associated with deprivation among both mothers and children. In general, it is a Bad Thing.)

Next in line are the Norwegians, British, Germans and Dutch. At least sixty percent accept evolution as a fact and fewer than one in three are convinced that there is a deity. There is little teenage pregnancy , although the Brits, with over 40 pregnancies per 1,000 girls a year, do twice as badly as the others. Homicide rates are also low -- around 1-2 victims per 100,000 people a year.

At the other end of the scale comes America. Over 50 percent of Americans believe in God, and only 40 percent accept some form of evolution (many believe it had a helping hand from the Deity). The U.S. has the highest rate of teenage pregnancy and homicide rates are at least five times greater than in Europe and ten times higher than in Japan.

Source: http://www.nairaland.com/121066/predomi ... west-crime

Just saying.



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30 Apr 2012, 9:50 am

CrazyCatLord wrote:
The U.S. has the highest rate of teenage pregnancy and homicide rates are at least five times greater than in Europe and ten times higher than in Japan.


We take the Bible and the Second Amendment quite seriously, and are happy to accept high teenage pregnancy and homicide rates as lovely consequences.

Europeans and Japanese are just liberal, atheistic, anti-gun wussies!



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30 Apr 2012, 10:00 am

Ni hao, so, you still live in China.

It obviously costs a lot more to be a Christian in China. It is a privilege to meet you.

A lot of Chinese people are shocked at the morals when they come to the UK, and I am not just talking about Christians. They are shocked to see girls of 13 having children and the state having to pay for unmarried mothers. They are also horrified to see divorced people who want sex but have no intention of getting married. Of course the rejoinder to that is that Chinese society these days is corrupt, as if the west isn't. The UK is pretty well secularised, although we officially have a state church.

It may strike you as odd but I actually get on with Chinese people better than the English. A friend said to me that the English she met were very nice, but superficial. She felt that being Chinese she was kept at a distance. I laughed and replied, oh they are like that to everybody. I had to assure her this was an English thing.



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30 Apr 2012, 10:26 am

Hiya. Yep, you're pretty much right in your assessment. There's some areas of USA where churchgoing is more commonplace, say, in like, Florida or other places down South, but once you get to New England and stuff, yeah.

It's good to hear that you're Christian, especially in PRC. Lots of people need to see extremes like PRC to come to their senses about the effects of atheism. Especially state atheism. Your country now has more men than women due to the policies of state atheism. For all the crap people give Christian societies, and Christian societies have never been perfect, Christian societies at least on the whole eliminated exposure of infants and abortion. Unfortunately it seems we're heading back in that direction as society becomes more secular.

Unfortunately threads like this usually get atheists coming in and disturbing us Christians, so I'm glad for your effort making this thread, but yeah, that's 99.9% likely going to happen. Then you're gonna have 10 pages of religious debate with atheists instead of a nice discussion with fellow Christians.

Me, I'm Eastern Orthodox Christian. Right now, I feel like a kinda crappy Christian, I wish I could be like "on fire" like I used to be, I hope God can help me with that. I left my old Charismatic church as I had some disagreements with the theology and a particular leadership person there, but also it was very very social demanding, almost cultlike especially in the way it attempted to evangelize people. Basically "love bombing." But, after my switch to the Orthodox church, it seems like my old church has sorta proclaimed like an anathema against me or something.

The Orthodox Church, basically, it's the church Christ started. It's endured to the end, so it seems. What happened was, there used to be just the Catholic church, and all Christians were Catholics, with the exception of Arians, Manicheans/Gnostics/etc. But then in 1054 there was a split between the Catholics and Orthodox over changes in the Nicene Creed, and the Catholics throughout the ages changed more stuff, whereas the Orthodox Church remained more or less the same. IE, Papal Infallibility, for example, wasn't dogma until the 1800s. The newest one is the Assumption of Mary, which says Mary went to Heaven like Enoch did. They sorta just make up more stuff as time goes on to be dogma. Theologically, if you read, at first you might be like "well that's weird" as it might go against everything you've been taught your entire life (well actually, that might just be me/most Americans, as I was raised Fundamental Baptist) with the invoking of saints and Mary in prayers, kissing icons and all that, it is sorta weird at first. Basically, I read the lives of some of the Saints, and you can see God working marvelously through them. They seemed to deliver upon the promise of "You shall do mightier works than me," that Jesus said. The other thing too, if Protestants are right, that would mean there was no Christians for over 1000 years after Christ, and you can't reasonably say God would let his Church fall into apostasy for a thousand or more years.

That said, being in PRC, you might not have access to an Orthodox Church near you, and honestly things aren't perfect at the Orthodox Church. On paper, yeah, we have the best theological understanding of things, but partially from persecution (IE, the Russian Church was under Communism for a few generations) and partially from stagnation and stuff, we're not the most like, "active" churches anymore. But, just saying, to consider for the future. Right now, you're probably going to a smaller kinda housechurch thing, right? That's how my old church started out, all churches sorta do start like that. Don't get the cathedral overnight, haha. God can and does work marvelously in churches like that, though. The only thing I'd tell you to watch out for, in Charismatic/Pentecostal circles, is not all "spiritual gifts" are of God. St. Paul says "Don't be hasty in the laying on of hands." So many times I've heard stories of Wicca practitioners going to churches and offering prayer via laying of hands, scary stuff really.

Lastly, China does have some spiritual heritage actually.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shangdi



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30 Apr 2012, 11:36 am

Wow I believe the thread was calling for ALL CHRISTIAN ASPIES not non theists :lol: I agree with 1000knives :wink:



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30 Apr 2012, 12:10 pm

^^ If there's a general agreement here I'm quite happy to move all of these posts to the "Theist Sanctuary" thread.
That way you can discuss the topic in (as best as we can maintain it) an atheist-free environment.


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