Feminism Has to Go...

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...At least the word 'feminism', as it means so many things to so many people these days that it's actually counterproductive to use, as it just leads to endless arguments over the "real" meaning. Further, I think there's a bit of bait and switch going on with the term, as I've increasingly grown to associate it with erosion of free speech and due process, screaming students demanding trigger warnings and safe spaces, everything being interpreted in the least charitable way possible so that it can be labeled "problematic", etc, only to then be told that "feminism simply means treating women like people" when I raise any of these points, usually followed up with an attempt to paint me as sexist.

So, my initial suggestion is that 'feminism' means the whole SJW privilege and micro-aggressions shebang that everyone but the feminists agrees is becoming a problem, while the 'treating women like people' school be split off into Women's Rights Activism/ists, or WRA(S), having a useful symmetry with the way men's rights activism is abbreviated. I'm just talking usage here, not an actual division, as that would be up to the people involved, I just want a quick and easy way to differentiate when talking about this, so that I don't get dogpiled by a bunch of people who think I'm talking about them, when I'm really referring to a specific sub-group, that I don't have to continually clarify.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

That would take an organized enough moderate community to clearly define what they are or what they aren't and codify it loudly. Otherwise whatever new name is given to moderates the nuts and lunatics will go there and use them as human shields all over again.

TBH i don't think it needs to go for the moderate level headed ones at least, however the radical ones do ecause they incite hatred!

I think feminism has gone from pro-female to anti-male. I don't agree with it.

I want equal rights for everyone. Obviously there are still many places where women do not have equal rights, or even in the US, women are often not respected, get paid less than men, and are still viewed by many as inferior to men.

But the radical feminists are just going too far, and have been for years. I don't want to be associated with feminism. If there is a group committed towards equal rights for everyone (not focused on any one group) that's who I would identify with.

It's the same with many animal-rights activists, and some atheists. They go too far, and focus on hostility rather than progress, cooperation, and understanding.

I don't think I'd be a part of any feminist movement, no matter what it was called.

Personally, my biases from your perspective would have the 'treating women as people' lot as the feminists, and those inclined to starting fights in empty rooms as the WRAs.

(In a sort of reversal of hate the sin, love the sinner - I have sympathy with the arguments that set you off. But I also recognise a contentious character type that goes looking to turn whatever they can into a problem)

I think when disussing particular currents of thought that come under a broad term, just refer to those specific currents of thought. Referring to specifics in any case helps to keep one's point clear. If you have concrete examples in mind, use them. If you have trouble with the term 'feminist', don't use it.

In this sort of conversation/debate, it's better to be clear on what you're talking about. Focusing on the practical and concrete will keep the discussion on track.

I agree with many of the sentiments expressed.
It would be nice when we deal with inequality to deal with it in totality as a cross spectrum(as in all people, generally) movement, and not just singling out a whole group for the actions of a bad few.
After all that's how prejudice starts, by transposing the faults of the one or the few onto an entire group.
Therefore, radical feminism's fringes are often guilty of misandry which isn't going to help female empowerment, whatsoever. Empower all people, not some groups.

E.G.
Give women equal pay, now, not later.

Give decent men equal residency of their children.

Train people out of the confirmation bias that makes them think that when a non-white person commits the same crime as a white person, that it's their ethnicity that is implicated in their faults as a person.

Get some non-white people to accept that when they are racist I have as much right to pull them up on it, as they to pull me up. Being anti-prejudice doesn't have a colour by definition. And mine shouldn't bar me from standing up to it in people who are not my ethnicity.

Inform economically privileged people that "trickle down" doesn't work when they off shore their money.

It can go on for a long time....

Dox said: *...I just want a quick and easy way to differentiate when talking about this, so that I don't get dogpiled by a bunch of people who think I'm talking about them...*

Sadly, I don't think there IS one, because some people just really seem to like to stay in *victim status*, so they can whine and people will give them attention and say: *Awww, poor baby*. IOW, NO MATTER how you talk about it, there will ALWAYS be someone to construe it, to their own liking (that they're a victim).

I'll just leave this here:

Yigeren said: *I think feminism has gone from pro-female to anti-male. I don't agree with it.*

I don't, EITHER----and, I am quite sick-and-tired of it!! It's to the point, now, that males are being oppressed. I tell ya what..... If a man holds the door for me, helps me with my coat, etc., he gets big points from me----BIG POINTS!! I don't like radicals of ANY kind----passionate, yes; radical, no. I realize the line between the two is subjective, but.....

I LIKE that picture / its definitions!! I feel that reiterates what I was saying about some people LIKING to be victims, and SEEKING *Awww, poor baby*----or, maybe, in the case of the girl on the right: *You go, gurrrl!*; either way, it's seeking attention.

Yeah, just don't use the word 'feminist'. Speak directly to what's at issue, what's botheing you, rather than an abstract label.

I can see how the word has become negative.I just want equality for all.
Everyone should get equal pay for the same job,women should have to register for selective service,men should get paid maternity leave so they can bond with the children.If a man wants to be a stay at home dad and his wife works he shouldn't be made to feel ashamed.Its good for kids to have a parent at home when they are little.If his wife has a higher paying job it just makes sense financially for Dad to be with the kids.If a woman can physically do the same job as a man she should be hired for it.I don't mind if a man opens a door for me,if I'm at the door first I will open it for a man.Thats just being polite.If a man is better able to care for the kids and provide a stable home,than he should get the kids,just becuse someone is female that doesn't mean they are a good parent.Men can be victims of domestic violence and rape.They may also need a shelter to stay in.
I just ignore wolf whistles,I don't like people to say crude things and many men don't like to be on the receiving end of nasty comments.
Truly what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

In the sixties and seventies feminist structures were created
E.g.
Women's studies departments
Ms magazine
Organizations like NOW

Subsequently feminists got everything they wanted in like 1980

But they can't admit it as hundreds of jobs are at stake