Outsourcing/Free Trade

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What do people think about outsourcing/free trade? Is it good? Is it bad? Is it something that one isn't concerned about? Is it a new form of imperialism? Is it the world's savior? Pick the option that you see as most true.

i have no idea what you are talking about so i voted for the top one

Free-trade is a disaster. Allowing unrestricted, non-tariff imports to flood the U.S. market has gutted domestic production. Some economists warned this would happen but they were largely ignored. Now America produces nothing and maintains its consumption of foreign goods with credit debt. The so called “service economy” has failed. It is far more vulnerable to economic whims and hasn’t compensated for the loss of manufacturing in either jobs or salaries. When I drive down the street I see abandoned warehouses that use to make durable goods and provide jobs that paid enough to raise a family and buy a home. Now all I see is dollar stores, fast food, strip clubs, and check-cashing businesses that will advance you a weeks pay at 30% interest. Free-trade has been a boon to the wealthy business elite but has left everyone else ruined.

yep. america cant clothe itself without china. hopefully there economy never collapses

I'm against slavery, period. First we enslave the native americans, then we enslave the blacks, now we're enslaving Chinese. What's the difference?
I mean yeah, the Chinese do technically have a choice, a choice to be slaves or starve to death. That's really not much of a choice though. Slavery is just wrong, we need to find a better way of producing our own goods.

This demeans every person that actually was enslaved in the slave trade. It also misses the point of the actual forced labor that goes on in China, which is rather irregular, but does still does occur. It is not however Americans who are doing the enslaving of Chinese prisoners but the Chinese communist party leadership. The question is whether or not America is make that problem worse or better, and the morality of trading with such a regime (this assumes the objection is not against free trade generally).

A legitimate argument can be made regarding trade with China. I myself opposed most favored nation status with China (although I feel the consequences of revoking it would negate the benefits). However, it must be noted, that China before free trade was in far more dilapidated condition then it was now. It was essentially a nation of labor camps before the economic (rather then political) reforms of Deng Xiaoping, and his successors. Since then, especially along the coastline, China has experienced a economic surge that has allowed a middle class to develop. These reforms (forced labor not being a reform), which have included selling off state owned properties, have been denounced by many on the far-left as "capitalist" and ruining the "classless society" and the "benefits" of socialism that Mao-Tse Tung had created (although China maintains much of it's socialist centralist structure, and only recently added property rights to it's constitution), are precisely what has brought China out of the stark poverty it used to maintain.

i like this reply. and if im not mistaken, if all those countrys pulled are number on the debt we owed them we'd be f-d. im sure its only a matter of time though, oil will get us, or our debt will get us. once contrys start loosing intrest in the dollar things might go downhill

You definitely should have picked a lower option. Really though, given that the terms are commonly used in political discussion you should have an idea what I am talking about.

The Great Depression was a disaster. World War II was a disaster. The economic situation in the United States ended it's protectionist policies, as a general, has not been, too put in mildly, a disaster.





No, no, no. Imposing tariffs on international goods will only cause other countries to increase their own tariffs and shut down international trade. The reason goods (like electronics from Japan, for instance) are being bought by U.S. consumers is because they are high quality. Still, anger at, for example, "Japanese auto makers" (I wonder why the anger is concentrated at Japanese auto makers at less so at German auto makers, I mean they were both enemies in World World II; racism perhaps?) encouraged the government to pressure Japan to do something about it. Now, Japanese companies makes cars in the US too, and they do so more efficiently then the average American auto maker since they are not burdened by decades of labor strife.



Now, it my turn to play "expert." Most reputability economists today do not believe that protectionism is a workable strategy. Perhaps Paul Krugman, but I'm not even sure if he buys it.



Changing topics here. Also American credit debt is also consumed on American goods as well.



Not based on current economic statistics.



The great manufacturing job myth. This attempts to show that despite strong economic performance, and job numbers, the proof that the economy is terrible is that we are losing manufacturing jobs to China and other countries overseas.

But in fact, the drain on manufacturing jobs is going on everywhere you look.

1992-2003 Job Production Grown -- Change in Manufacturing jobs
United States 57% -- -13.6%
Japan 54.3% -- -25.7%
China (estimates) 60% -- -18% (China's economy is based more on industry then, as opposed to India, information technology; it's growth is also less impressive then India's-Jim)
Germany 35.1% -- -21%
United Kingdom 35.9% -- -18.9%
France 50.9% -- -10.9%

(source)



Anecdotal evidence. I hear people around where I live talk about how the economy is terrible, and it is impossible to get a job. I read in the paper recently the state unemployment is 4.0%, and my county (Chester) is 2.5% (the lowest in the state). The growth here is very strong. There are signs advertising for more then minimum wage.

Perhaps you live in Michigan? The economy is bad there. Also, manufacturing isn't fantastic (partially because of new technologies).

I assume you are aware that people buy a home more now then in the past? Also, they do so in this more this country and much less so in Europe?



The fact that there is such a thing as a dollar store is an indication at how high the quality of living has become.



In poor countries there is nothing like "fast food." There certainly wasn't in the Soviet bloc, or the People's Republic of China before the opening to the west. The appearance of these things is, again, evidence of high quality of living. Poorer countries are lacking in basic necessities, or are more short in supply of things like refrigerators.



(no comment)



There is actually a purpose to such a thing. Perhaps you need a loan to, say, purchase a car. Someone needs that important enough now that they are willing to pay more money over time (people generally don't pay for all of house at once, they cost too much). This isn't to say they aren't abused, but that is why people have credit ratings.



What is the basis for this type of statement. Does the average person's living condition in the United States really give the impression of someone who has been "ruined?"

not in this country girl

Krugman actually has written an article defending the Ricardian trade model, a model that defends the efficiency of free trade. I could send it for you if you want to see. Krugman is a trade economist though, so really he should not be dismissed so offhandedly on this matter as even though he is known for bias, the man has gotten acolades.

I have recently heard of a noted economist who has attacked the benefits free trade, however, you can take this however you want. I am not getting heavily involved other than for clarity and informational purposes.

Last edited by Awesomelyglorious on 06 May 2007, 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Considering that you have once claimed to be a US person then if you paid much attention you heard of something. There was a big clamor over outsourcing in 2004.

Oh i just got it, You are talking Of US economics.
I know nothing of this mess, but i have been shorting US$s since 2004.
Kept me out of work for some years, long may it continue, i mean decline
ha ha

when was that ?
ha ha you must be on different drugs than me

Well, free trade and outsourcing are big political issues in most developed nations and are a large part of the subject of economics in general. I think that a reasonably educated person on international politics or on economic ideas would know something about this.

well it would not be the first time you have been wrong.
me american ? i dont think so