Father-daughter talk.... the truth about liberalism

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Shadowgirl
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05 May 2009, 5:33 pm

Father-daughter talk....

A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat, and among other liberal ideals, was very much in favor of higher taxes to support more government programs, in other words redistribution of wealth.
She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.
One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the need for more government programs. The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father.
Her father responded by asking how she was doing in school.
Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many college friends because she spent all her time studying.
Her father listened and then asked, 'How is your friend Audrey doing?'
She replied, 'Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She's always invited to all the parties and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes because she's too hung over.'
Her wise father asked his daughter, 'Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA.'
The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired back, 'That's a crazy idea, how would that be fair! I've worked really hard for my grades! I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!'
The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, 'Welcome to the Republican party.'

If anyone has a better explanation of the difference between Republican and Democrat I'm all ears


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iMark
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05 May 2009, 5:53 pm

that one has been flaoting around since the reagan years. maybe earlier.



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05 May 2009, 7:11 pm

Shadowgirl wrote:
If anyone has a better explanation of the difference between Republican and Democrat I'm all ears

Where do I start? Firstly, the Democrats aren't out-and-out socialists except in the eyes of completely delusional right-wingers. Second, a more important distinguishing factor seems to be social issues, and social conservatism is just plain idiocy.


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iMark
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05 May 2009, 7:26 pm

A Democrat is a person who taxes the rich to give money to the poor while taking a percentage off the top; believes that an entire state should go without water to preserve the habitat of an endangered species; claims that criminals are only misunderstood victims of society and that their victims should try to understand this; calls illegal immigrants 'undocumented aliens'; prefers a tax-and-spend economy where a worker's take-home pay is reduced by increased taxation.

A Republican is a person who taxes the poor to give money to the rich while taking a percentage off the top; believes that an endangered species is doomed to die anyway, so it's okay to turn its habitat into a barren wasteland to keep a state's industries running; understands that crime victims somehow deserved to be victimized while at the same time calling for more police protection and prisons; calls for greater surveillance of foreign-speaking people; prefers a spend-now-tax-later economy where a worker's take-home pay is in the form of an unemployment check.

simplistic cynical and somewhat bogus but i would like to see a more concise description.

the two links below will set you straight if you choose to believe them.

Democrats: Democratic Agenda

Republicans: Republican Platform



Gabe
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05 May 2009, 7:44 pm

Wow, this forum just gets worse and worse. And I thought it hit rock-bottom with that 'Nietzsche rapist' thread...



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05 May 2009, 8:46 pm

Shadowgirl wrote:
Father-daughter talk....

A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat, and among other liberal ideals, was very much in favor of higher taxes to support more government programs, in other words redistribution of wealth.
She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.
One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the need for more government programs. The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father.
Her father responded by asking how she was doing in school.
Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many college friends because she spent all her time studying.
Her father listened and then asked, 'How is your friend Audrey doing?'
She replied, 'Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She's always invited to all the parties and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes because she's too hung over.'
Her wise father asked his daughter, 'Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA.'
The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired back, 'That's a crazy idea, how would that be fair! I've worked really hard for my grades! I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!'
The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, 'Welcome to the Republican party.'

suddenly the doorbell rang, it was audrey. "I'll offer you $10000 for 1.0 of your GPA points" she said.
the daughter thought for a moment, and replied "$20000". "Done!", exclaimed audrey.
the daughter slowly smiled, winked and said gently, 'Welcome to the Republican party.' :P



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05 May 2009, 9:53 pm

Scary! It's like the philosophy forum got its own personal version of the little old spinster from Oklahoma who works in your office, wears blue eyeshadow, muumuus and sparkly crucifixes, and passes the email forwards about Obama being the antichrist while sipping coffee from her Precious Moments mug. 8O



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05 May 2009, 10:09 pm

Gabe wrote:
Wow, this forum just gets worse and worse. And I thought it hit rock-bottom with that 'Nietzsche rapist' thread...

Yeah.... these threads have been relatively terrible.

You should start a thread that is non-sucky.


In any case, the issue with the republican and the democrat is a rather weak argument. As Orwell points out, Democrats aren't complete socialists, they want higher taxes, but not equalization, only a higher tax based upon the idea that the rich do not desire each additional dollar as much as a poorer person might, so taking more from them does less harm. It isn't a terrible argument.

Secondly, libertarians are more anti-tax than Republicans. I mean, libertarians beat the heck out of Republicans in opposing taxes, so I don't see how Republicans can really say "oh, we're anti-tax", as they end up racking up large deficits whenever they get into power anyway.



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06 May 2009, 7:17 am

@ the OP is it possible for you to have an original thought, or do you just post old idiotic stories that appeal to people with low IQ's that cannot analyse and deduce there stupidity. This seems to be a trait amongst many christian republicans, they seem to read and regurgitate little one liners and parables that are the epitome of Strawmen.


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06 May 2009, 7:24 am

DivaD wrote:
suddenly the doorbell rang, it was audrey. "I'll offer you $10000 for 1.0 of your GPA points" she said.
the daughter thought for a moment, and replied "$20000". "Done!", exclaimed audrey.
the daughter slowly smiled, winked and said gently, 'Welcome to the Republican party.' :P


what, no lobbyists?


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oscuria
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06 May 2009, 7:25 am

DentArthurDent wrote:
@ the OP is it possible for you to have an original thought, or do you just post old idiotic stories that appeal to people with low IQ's that cannot analyse and deduce there stupidity. This seems to be a trait amongst many christian republicans, they seem to read and regurgitate little one liners and parables that are the epitome of Strawmen.


hey, many people here do that.

you have bastards that are hostile against religion quoting nietzsche as the only rebuttal.

its the same bs.

SAME BS!


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06 May 2009, 8:05 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Secondly, libertarians are more anti-tax than Republicans. I mean, libertarians beat the heck out of Republicans in opposing taxes, so I don't see how Republicans can really say "oh, we're anti-tax", as they end up racking up large deficits whenever they get into power anyway.


Anti-Tax is logical consistent if spending is cut too. But maintaining high spending in areas with no real economic output (aka war) and cutting taxes is on the long run a mad policy.



ed
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06 May 2009, 10:31 am

On another topic you just started, you said the following:

Shadowgirl wrote:
An economics professor at Texas Tech said he had never failed a single
student before but had, once, failed an entire class. That class had
insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no
one would be rich, a great equalizer. The professor then said ok, we
will have an experiment in this class on socialism.

All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade
so no one would fail and no one would receive an A. After the first
test the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who
studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were
happy. But, as the second test rolled around, the students who
studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard
decided they wanted a free ride too; so they studied little..
The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test
rolled around the average was an F.

The scores never increased as bickering, blame, name calling all
resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of
anyone else.
All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that
socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great,
the effort to succeed is great; but when government takes all the
reward away; no one will try or want to succeed.

Could not be any simpler than that....


Sounds very similar to this post, doesn't it? So I will just post my response to that post here:

ed wrote:
It seems to me we've just proven that Capitalism doesn't work. It is based on the fact that we are greedy, and only functions because of that greed. It results in huge disparities in wealth, rewarding those who display the most greed.

Socialism won't work either, we are also lazy. In the long run however, this is the system that offers the best hope for our continued survival. We must change ourselves, becoming more dedicated to helping the entire species, instead of just ourselves. Better to use a system that rewards us for being good than one that rewards us for being evil.


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06 May 2009, 12:32 pm

Without reading the responses, I'd prefer that the OP provide her own thoughts as opposed to merely posting stories that she agrees with.

Beyond that, it is important to understand the political spectrum. I've said this before, but I'll go ahead an say it again.

A left-right one-dimensional line cannot possibly account for the entire political spectrum.

You need to look at politics as a 3-dimensional cube where the axis are as such...

Economic Liberal - Economic Conservative
Social Liberal - Social Conservative
Libertarian - Statist

Personally, I am an economic conservative, a social liberal and a libertarian. As such, I appreciate many conservative ideals, but abhor social conservatism. I am all for a flat-tax rate, but I am also pro-choice and pro-gay rights.



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06 May 2009, 12:47 pm

vibratetogether wrote:
Without reading the responses, I'd prefer that the OP provide her own thoughts as opposed to merely posting stories that she agrees with.

Beyond that, it is important to understand the political spectrum. I've said this before, but I'll go ahead an say it again.

A left-right one-dimensional line cannot possibly account for the entire political spectrum.

You need to look at politics as a 3-dimensional cube where the axis are as such...

Economic Liberal - Economic Conservative
Social Liberal - Social Conservative
Libertarian - Statist

Personally, I am an economic conservative, a social liberal and a libertarian. As such, I appreciate many conservative ideals, but abhor social conservatism. I am all for a flat-tax rate, but I am also pro-choice and pro-gay rights.


This is a very appropriate analogy, and probably applicable to more people than we realize. But given the incredibly partisan politics - on both sides of the aisle - thinking "outside the line" will likely require a third-party candidate making the ballot in all 50 states in a presidential election.


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06 May 2009, 1:23 pm

Shadowgirl wrote:
Father-daughter talk....

A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat, and among other liberal ideals, was very much in favor of higher taxes to support more government programs, in other words redistribution of wealth.
She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.
One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the need for more government programs. The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father.
Her father responded by asking how she was doing in school.
Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many college friends because she spent all her time studying.
Her father listened and then asked, 'How is your friend Audrey doing?'
She replied, 'Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She's always invited to all the parties and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes because she's too hung over.'
Her wise father asked his daughter, 'Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA.'
The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired back, 'That's a crazy idea, how would that be fair! I've worked really hard for my grades! I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!'
The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, 'Welcome to the Republican party.'



WHERE did this come from? Regardless of where it came from its so fundamentally WRONG that Im hesitant to even explain how because it should be OBVIOUS to you[But then again you might be inclined to use the *straw man* argument and deliberately misrepresent other peoples beliefs]. Conservativism is Not about fairness! For example, justice and minority rights are
things that conservatives could care less about. The ONLY minorities that have any rights are those which are up near or at the top of the social order. Elitist conservative do not believe in meritocracy, they seek to preserve their position of privildege and minimize social mobility as much as possible. Conservatives are fundamentally hierarchical and do NOT believe that everyone should have an equal chance at succeeding. I am not a conservative because it is NOT in my self-interests. Period. I am not a member of the elite nor do I have anything in common with the masses. It makes sense for me to vote democrat since I support such things as minority rights and affirmative action. If you work hard to EARN something and you get back what you give, then that is perfectly fair and you have no cause to feel guilty. It really does bother me that slots at elite colleges are filled by students who really did NOTHING to earn being there. They got there becaue of social connections of their affluent parents and so they got it "for free".