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Ragtime
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11 Aug 2007, 11:50 am

Sopho wrote:
2. Specifically ffs? Is that another sh** joke? No it isn't/ Someone could be attracted to people of the same sex but be asexual and therefore not sleep with them, or for whatever other reason. Stop trying to make out that gay marriage is about nothing but sex. It's about much more than that.

But our official, legal objections are to the sex and the marriage (which is a sexual institution), not to the spending time with one another. :roll: Ya, we're making laws that say gay people can't congregate. :lol:


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11 Aug 2007, 11:52 am

Sopho wrote:
Hadron wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Hadron wrote:
People could have a biological, certainly psychological disposition to getting involved in a religion, could they not? Quite a lot of people within religion actually have a total need for it. It could be an explaination for why quite a lot of us Athiests get so miserable...

I agree with that. But that disposition in itself isn't what makes someone religious. Crazy people can have a disposition to be alsorts of things. That doesn't mean we then can't judge them when they go off and murder someone (and no, I'm not saying being religious is equal to murder. But there have been alsorts of comparisons with homosexuality before so I don't care).

Put it like this the Gullable will almost always be mislead. And yes people can be judged for their actions. What you are saying that is unfair is that gay people should not be criticised for choosing to be gay, while religious people should be criticised for following a religion. I dont think you can have it like that.

No I'm not.
Again, I know that I didn't choose not to be straight. So, to me, that's not what it is. If people were biologically Christian then fine. I wouldn't say this. But they're not. I don't believe people choose to be gay. I know I didn't.

He might know God. People may not choose directly to be gay, but it could be result of all their other choices. And maybe some choices of others around them too. What you know and what you think you know are two different things, anyway.



Ragtime
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11 Aug 2007, 11:55 am

Sopho wrote:
1. It's not what you are in the same way that being gay is. You are not biologically a Christian. You religion says something bout you as a person - your beliefs, values. Being gay doesn't.

It says everything about me as a person. And as I said, spiritual identity is greater and more fundamental than biological identity. That's why people of all races and creeds become one people in Christ when they accept Him.
Sopho wrote:
2. What's getting old is your continual references to paediophilia when anyone with a higher level of intelligence would realise that homasexuality and paedophilia are entirely different.

Analogies can still be drawn along certain lines.


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Sopho
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11 Aug 2007, 11:55 am

Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
2. Specifically ffs? Is that another sh** joke? No it isn't/ Someone could be attracted to people of the same sex but be asexual and therefore not sleep with them, or for whatever other reason. Stop trying to make out that gay marriage is about nothing but sex. It's about much more than that.

But our official, legal objections are to the sex and the marriage (which is a sexual institution), not to the spending time with one another. :roll: Ya, we're making laws that say gay people can't congregate. :lol:

It's not a sexual institution. Asexual people can get married as well. I want the right to get married so I have the same visiting rights at hospitals etc, rights to kids if my partner died. Loads of things that are in no way related to sex.



Ragtime
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11 Aug 2007, 11:57 am

Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Therefore, their existence is a simple fact which is stuck in your brain, not a "chosen view".

And it's not a 'fact' that your god exists. :lol:


Actually it is, but how would you know?

How would you know either.
No one knows it to exist or not exist.


I know it in my spirit. I know it more than you know you're gay, because being gay is in the bodily realm, and doesn't extend into spirituality.


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Sopho
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11 Aug 2007, 11:57 am

Hadron wrote:
He might know God. People may not choose directly to be gay, but it could be result of all their other choices. And maybe some choices of others around them too. What you know and what you think you know are two different things, anyway.

I liked girls as young as 5/6 years old. Any choice I had made must have then been before that, when I was too young to understand/remember it. So as far as that is concerned, I made no choice. To me, all the evidence points towards it being hormonal. Or at least in some way biological. And I'm not just saying this because I'm biased; I would much prefer it if I could say that I had chosen to be gay. And I came to this conclusion several years ago, before I'd even admitted it or accepted it myself, I still viewed myself as straight.



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11 Aug 2007, 11:59 am

Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Spiritually supercedes biology in identity.

Only to a religious person.


Well, it's the same argument against. Only to a pro-gay person does gayness seem unchangable.

But I know I didn't choose it. You don't know your god exists. At least some people know being gay isn't a choice. Whereas no one knows this god exists.


:lol: That's the dumbest argument yet. Believe me, people all over the world know God better than they know anything about themselves. You just don't understand what a spiritual relationship is.


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11 Aug 2007, 11:59 am

Sopho wrote:
Hadron wrote:
He might know God. People may not choose directly to be gay, but it could be result of all their other choices. And maybe some choices of others around them too. What you know and what you think you know are two different things, anyway.

I liked girls as young as 5/6 years old. Any choice I had made must have then been before that, when I was too young to understand/remember it. So as far as that is concerned, I made no choice. To me, all the evidence points towards it being hormonal. Or at least in some way biological. And I'm not just saying this because I'm biased; I would much prefer it if I could say that I had chosen to be gay. And I came to this conclusion several years ago, before I'd even admitted it or accepted it myself, I still viewed myself as straight.

You were thinking about that sort of thing at 5/6 years old. I thought puberty didnt happen any earlier than 10?



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11 Aug 2007, 11:59 am

Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
1. It's not what you are in the same way that being gay is. You are not biologically a Christian. You religion says something bout you as a person - your beliefs, values. Being gay doesn't.

It says everything about me as a person. And as I said, spiritual identity is greater and more fundamental than biological identity. That's why people of all races and creeds become one people in Christ when they accept Him.
Sopho wrote:
2. What's getting old is your continual references to paediophilia when anyone with a higher level of intelligence would realise that homasexuality and paedophilia are entirely different.

Analogies can still be drawn along certain lines.

1. Spirituality is of no importance to me, as a non-religious person. You have no way of knowing your god exists. Whereas I know I didn't choose not to be straight.
2. Comparing homosexuality to paedophilia is indirectly comparing me (and anyone else who isn't straight) to a paedophile. I find that repulsive. I mgiht think you're a stupid idiot, but I wouldn't ever make suggestions like that.



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11 Aug 2007, 12:00 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Spiritually supercedes biology in identity.

Only to a religious person.


Well, it's the same argument against. Only to a pro-gay person does gayness seem unchangable.

But I know I didn't choose it. You don't know your god exists. At least some people know being gay isn't a choice. Whereas no one knows this god exists.


:lol: That's the dumbest argument yet. Believe me, people all over the world know God better than they know anything about themselves. You just don't understand what a spiritual relationship is.

But you don't know that this god exists. :roll:



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11 Aug 2007, 12:01 pm

Hadron wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Hadron wrote:
He might know God. People may not choose directly to be gay, but it could be result of all their other choices. And maybe some choices of others around them too. What you know and what you think you know are two different things, anyway.

I liked girls as young as 5/6 years old. Any choice I had made must have then been before that, when I was too young to understand/remember it. So as far as that is concerned, I made no choice. To me, all the evidence points towards it being hormonal. Or at least in some way biological. And I'm not just saying this because I'm biased; I would much prefer it if I could say that I had chosen to be gay. And I came to this conclusion several years ago, before I'd even admitted it or accepted it myself, I still viewed myself as straight.

You were thinking about that sort of thing at 5/6 years old. I thought puberty didnt happen any earlier than 10?

Not about sex, no. It doesn't have to be sexual. I didn't even know what sex was when I was 6.



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11 Aug 2007, 12:01 pm

Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
2. Specifically ffs? Is that another sh** joke? No it isn't/ Someone could be attracted to people of the same sex but be asexual and therefore not sleep with them, or for whatever other reason. Stop trying to make out that gay marriage is about nothing but sex. It's about much more than that.

But our official, legal objections are to the sex and the marriage (which is a sexual institution), not to the spending time with one another. :roll: Ya, we're making laws that say gay people can't congregate. :lol:

It's not a sexual institution. Asexual people can get married as well.


It's still a sexual institution.


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Sopho
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11 Aug 2007, 12:03 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
2. Specifically ffs? Is that another sh** joke? No it isn't/ Someone could be attracted to people of the same sex but be asexual and therefore not sleep with them, or for whatever other reason. Stop trying to make out that gay marriage is about nothing but sex. It's about much more than that.

But our official, legal objections are to the sex and the marriage (which is a sexual institution), not to the spending time with one another. :roll: Ya, we're making laws that say gay people can't congregate. :lol:

It's not a sexual institution. Asexual people can get married as well.


It's still a sexual institution.

Not to some individual people.
It is a legal contract. The rights and benefits that go along with marriage aren't sexual.



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11 Aug 2007, 12:35 pm

Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Spiritually supercedes biology in identity.

Only to a religious person.


Well, it's the same argument against. Only to a pro-gay person does gayness seem unchangable.

But I know I didn't choose it. You don't know your god exists. At least some people know being gay isn't a choice. Whereas no one knows this god exists.


:lol: That's the dumbest argument yet. Believe me, people all over the world know God better than they know anything about themselves. You just don't understand what a spiritual relationship is.

But you don't know that this god exists. :roll:


How do YOU know that I don't know God is real? God is my best and truest friend, and always will be, and for you to say He doesn't exist is as insulting as it is ridiculous.


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11 Aug 2007, 12:37 pm

Ragtime wrote:
How do YOU know that I don't know God is real? God is my best and truest friend, and always will be, and for you to say He doesn't exist is as insulting as it is ridiculous.

Aww, I had imaginary friends too. Although I kind of grew out of it a while ago. :P



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11 Aug 2007, 1:08 pm

Sopho wrote:
Hadron wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Hadron wrote:
He might know God. People may not choose directly to be gay, but it could be result of all their other choices. And maybe some choices of others around them too. What you know and what you think you know are two different things, anyway.

I liked girls as young as 5/6 years old. Any choice I had made must have then been before that, when I was too young to understand/remember it. So as far as that is concerned, I made no choice. To me, all the evidence points towards it being hormonal. Or at least in some way biological. And I'm not just saying this because I'm biased; I would much prefer it if I could say that I had chosen to be gay. And I came to this conclusion several years ago, before I'd even admitted it or accepted it myself, I still viewed myself as straight.

You were thinking about that sort of thing at 5/6 years old. I thought puberty didnt happen any earlier than 10?

Not about sex, no. It doesn't have to be sexual. I didn't even know what sex was when I was 6.

Well I would hope you felt platonic love for people of both sexes. As for the sex one, i knew at that age, but that is another story.