11 Aug 2007, 2:40 pm
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Spiritually supercedes biology in identity.
Only to a religious person.
Well, it's the same argument against. Only to a pro-gay person does gayness seem unchangable.
But I know I didn't choose it. You don't know your god exists. At least some people know being gay isn't a choice. Whereas no one knows this god exists.
That's the dumbest argument yet. Believe me, people all over the world know God better than they know anything about themselves. You just don't understand what a spiritual relationship is.She doesn't and I don't, well I guess I did before, I know how is this thing because I did go to church before.
As I also know for scientific studies and observation religion has a great psychological effect on people who are deeply religious and believe those things with all their passion, who are not believers don't have that, that is why you think different and see things different from non believers. It's all about in the human brain in the end, and how we perceive things and feel things.
11 Aug 2007, 2:46 pm
11 Aug 2007, 2:48 pm
11 Aug 2007, 3:08 pm
Sopho wrote:
greenblue wrote:
You (Sopho) really make good points here, but they decide not to read them or ignore them, or they don't get it. You made it clear that you didn't chose this, they won't accept or ignore it. Ragtime however has an excuse, I know he won't accept it because it would contradict things he strongly holds on to EMOTIONALLY not logically, this other fella, I really don't know.
I know. That's the only thing that I find frustrating - it's not the points other people make (as Ragtime suggested yesterday when he said I was no longer being laid back about it), it's when the points I make are obviously ignored.
ie. I don't hate men. I've never made any comments, AFAIK, that would indicate that I did. If anything, I've made more pissed off posts about women.
That was why I kept on asking Ragtime to respond - because he'd made such a ridiculous statement, I wanted to know why. It had nothing to do with looking for attention.
Also, people don't seem to realise that I'm not being hypocritical because 'Ragtime could say the same about gays, that they're not born that way) because the difference is - I know myself that I didn't choose to be gay. Other people might not believe me, but I know it myself. Whereas Ragtime doesn't know his god exists. There's no way of proving or disproving something like that. So it's entirely different.
Anyway, the source for his claims to ban gay people to have the same rights as straight people are not objective, this bible thing and religious thing is very subjective in the end, and shouldn't be valuable to apply to the real world like that, when it comes about gay people and human rights.
The antigay thing from a few christians parallels a lot with the blood thing from Jehova's witnesses. Both are wrong and just damage people in the end.
However there are a few churches that accept gay people, which is a good thing, religion has always change according to time, so this they should do as well, sex has been always a problem.
You will see how much of a problem and taboo sexuality have been in history, especially in christianity, that is why it is taking too much time to change. Gay sexuality is still taboo with a lot of christians
I hope after a few years this will change and it should if humanity is developing for the better.
11 Aug 2007, 3:12 pm
11 Aug 2007, 3:25 pm
11 Aug 2007, 3:27 pm
11 Aug 2007, 3:30 pm
11 Aug 2007, 3:34 pm
11 Aug 2007, 3:35 pm
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Therefore, their existence is a simple fact which is stuck in your brain, not a "chosen view".
And it's not a 'fact' that your god exists.
Actually it is, but how would you know?
How would you know either.
No one knows it to exist or not exist.
No one KNOWS anything, by the type of
criteria that you can impose. Indeed, there
are some pretty decent proofs for God's
existence. They just don't tell you what
God is.
11 Aug 2007, 3:36 pm
calandale wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Therefore, their existence is a simple fact which is stuck in your brain, not a "chosen view".
And it's not a 'fact' that your god exists.
Actually it is, but how would you know?
How would you know either.
No one knows it to exist or not exist.
No one KNOWS anything, by the type of
criteria that you can impose. Indeed, there
are some pretty decent proofs for God's
existence. They just don't tell you what
God is.
He can't prove the Christian god exists. But I don't recall ever deciding to be gay. For him, it's an external thing - a god, for me it's about decisions that I supposedly made myself.
11 Aug 2007, 3:42 pm
11 Aug 2007, 3:44 pm
11 Aug 2007, 3:56 pm
calandale wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Therefore, their existence is a simple fact which is stuck in your brain, not a "chosen view".
And it's not a 'fact' that your god exists.
Actually it is, but how would you know?
How would you know either.
No one knows it to exist or not exist.
No one KNOWS anything, by the type of
criteria that you can impose. Indeed, there
are some pretty decent proofs for God's
existence. They just don't tell you what
God is.
That is what I think. I really don't know how to prove his existence in a way of having a solid evidence.
The closest thing that anyone can ever get is to form a speculation or conjecture about it, but not a solid proof, mostly based on the feeling of the need of his existence, I suppose.
And if there is, we get another question, what kind of God is he? is he the God from all ancient writings including the Bible which have a different view of him?
11 Aug 2007, 4:01 pm
11 Aug 2007, 4:17 pm
