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Make marijuana legal
No, it is the flower of satan. 5%  5%  [ 9 ]
No, it is the flower of satan. 5%  5%  [ 9 ]
Yes, but limited like cigarettes, and taxed like hell 19%  19%  [ 36 ]
Yes, but limited like cigarettes, and taxed like hell 19%  19%  [ 36 ]
No, what would the poor innercity kids do for money 2%  2%  [ 3 ]
No, what would the poor innercity kids do for money 2%  2%  [ 3 ]
Yes, liiike totally, Dude. Right on. "Free Mary Jane." 24%  24%  [ 47 ]
Yes, liiike totally, Dude. Right on. "Free Mary Jane." 24%  24%  [ 47 ]
Don't know, dont care. let me take care of my munchies and cotton mouth, i will get back to ya. 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
Don't know, dont care. let me take care of my munchies and cotton mouth, i will get back to ya. 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 194

Remnant
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07 Feb 2006, 12:11 am

Awesome, no one should ever, ever accept the kind of rhetoric that you use here, on principle that should have been pounded into everyone's head since birth.

There are all sorts of flags here that say "this thesis is wrong and anyone with a mind should discard it and ask the speaker to leave his life alone." It helps to know that the rhetoric comes from tainted sources and that whoever wrote the brochure did not bother to do even elementary fact-checking.



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07 Feb 2006, 1:29 am

Alcohol and cigarettes kill so many people because they are the most dangerous legal drugs out there. If we had made them illegal a long time ago, they would probably kill only about as many people as pot.

The problem, of course, is that making alcohol and cigarettes illegal today would be impossible; prohibition showed us that. I think if we made pot legal, we would have as much trouble with marijuana use as we do today with alcohol and nicotine.

I have no problem with medicinal marijuana use; and I don't think people ought to be jailed for years on end just for smoking pot (though for driving while smoking pot, I'd have no problem with a long jail term). However, making it legal would simply increase the number of legal but problematic substances available on the market today.


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sc
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07 Feb 2006, 2:20 am

I find it interesting how such a serious topic is discussed here in such light matters.

Gateway drug - YES

However not for all, but for those it is, it is - duh.

If you sell it, its criminal, period.

What you do in your own home is your own business. Buy it from someone, get caught with it, then you get punished.

Those same people that buy it, can sell it underage peoples illegally. Anyone buying it not knowing where the money goes to me is the following:

1. Indirectly or possibly supporting terrorism. Yet unlikely, still yet criminals.
2. Disobeying the law, funding criminal activities.
3. Needs to go to jail or do community service via probation to learn his or her lesson.
4. Supporting possible gang activities, funding illegal weapons and putting innocent people indirectly in harms way if it is circumstantually accurate.

No wonder tax payers must spend so much money on the war against drugs, because degenerates and extraordinarily bad examples such as those supporting medical substances to be used freely by anyone are likely or have funded those who sell it.

Not causally linked? Seems as if it is, unless your acting logically dumbfounded or blind.

Your funding criminals, go to a doctor get a prescription and if you don’t have a script then its like buying pharmaceuticals illegally.

Some of you are a very poor example to younger members here, some of you are younger members yourselves that might have unfortunately have chosen to do drugs illegally.



psych
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07 Feb 2006, 3:17 am

sc;

i hope you dont eat chocolate, because most of its harvested by men abducted, tortured & forced into slavery. In fact i want an answer do you eat (non fair-trade) cocoa products Y/N?

better not use coca-cola products either because they order assassination for troublesome trade union reps in south america...



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07 Feb 2006, 8:20 am

psych wrote:
academic failure, poor employment records, lack of drive and ambition, schitzophrenia etc - these are all 'chicken and egg' areas. Finding links doesnt prove a causative relationship. Its quite possible the high-school drop outs have made that lifestyle choice, and MJ fits into that chosen lifestyle.

Schitzophernia - whos to say they arent self-medicating? various strains of cannabis have an anti-anxiety, anti-depressant, anti-manic and perhaps even anti-psychotic effects (high cbd varieties). In this case a link proves nothing.

Gateway drug - NO

damages memory - temporarily, so what?

psychologically addictive - everything thats enjoyable is 'psychologically addictive'

immuno-suppression - Well ive heard quite the opposite. Why is it recommended for AIDS sufferers?

not necessary - most enjoyable activities arent 'necessary' what sort of argument is that?

mad emperors - caused by chronic lead poisoining

moral guidance - think you may be needing a little yourself :lol:

What does that leave us with? - (alleged) concerns about pregnancy and a few legal technicalities regarding use of heavy machinery and passive smoking - that hardly constitutes grounds for prohibition, let alone any sort of moral standard.

Well, the schizophrenia wasn't a chicken and egg because I looked at testing where the people did not have any problems before they started using marijuana. The students and workers could also not be chicken and egg because marijuana does affect the part of the brain responsible for ambition.

Yes, marijuana is a gateway drug. Although not all users go on to harder things there are still significantly more people that do.

Memory damage still would affect student performance and things of that nature.

Not necessary is an argument saying that the legalization of marijuana is not necessary for any group of people and therefore it is not a big deal to not legalize marijuana.

The mad emperors could have easily been caused by lead poisoning due to the Roman use of lead and such.

My morality works fine for me and I tend to do somewhat well and obey most(if not all) laws and I also tend to be quite effective at what I do too.

Even the concerns that we are left with are still grounds for prohibition. The possibility of more automobile wrecks is not something that we want. The problems is causes for feti is not something desirable either and really few people would want public marijuana smoking, heck, we are now making progress with smoking tobacco why would we want to open another can of worms? Marijuana is still a mind-altering drug with almost no benefit to society when used for recreation.

Bah, I did not get this information from a brochure. There may be conflicting data on the whole marijuana issue or something. I honestly don't know but for all I know your information is bad as well. Anyway, whatever.



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07 Feb 2006, 11:03 am

If the people who support the drug war can't tell that they opened a can of worms already, what use are they now? Opposing the appetites of humans causes problems. The people who oppose those appetites take no responsibility for their own actions and blame them on the people they are victimizing. The people who push the prohibition laws can't and won't see that their own behavior is criminal and inspires criminal behavior and disrespect for the law. Once they decide to force aside the human rights of their targets, that's it for them, they don't recognize those rights anymore and they don't recognize that their victims have every right to defy them.



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07 Feb 2006, 6:51 pm

Remnant wrote:
If the people who support the drug war can't tell that they opened a can of worms already, what use are they now? Opposing the appetites of humans causes problems. The people who oppose those appetites take no responsibility for their own actions and blame them on the people they are victimizing. The people who push the prohibition laws can't and won't see that their own behavior is criminal and inspires criminal behavior and disrespect for the law. Once they decide to force aside the human rights of their targets, that's it for them, they don't recognize those rights anymore and they don't recognize that their victims have every right to defy them.

Criminal is only acting in opposition to the law. Human rights are the result of a piece of paper that is recognized by the government as law.

crime (krim)n. 1. An act committed or omitted in violation of a law forbidding or commanding it and for which punishment is imposed upon conviction. 2. Unlawful activity

Criminal being related to crime and crime being that which is illegal means that the criminals are the pot smokers and cannot be by definition the people enforcing the laws.

A right is something given by a government organization based upon law or tradition or something. Weed has been banned for years and is really not considered part of the American tradition or at least not much more than cocaine is. Weed is illegal by law so it is not given by the law. The "victims" have no right to defy them by violating the law, they may have the right to defy the anti-marijuana people politically but they have no right to violate the law because nobody has the right to violate the law. Besides, I have never read anything about the right to do smoke whatever you want or to inject it either.

Also the whole argument about the appetites of humans is rather stupid because people have appetites for rape and murder, do you propose that we put those on the open market so as to not oppose those appetites? Sure I am using an obvious strawman, I know, but the argument has flaws due to the fact that human appetites are not always good for society and if they are seen to be bad then they must be suppressed.

The people opposing marijuana are not the irresponsible ones, they are backed by law and they are not the ones who openly flout the law for a pointless pleasure that they can easily do without. Marijuana is not the only thing in this world that provides pleasure, it is probably also not the cheapest and it most certainly is not the healthiest. The victims did take their own lives into their hands by choosing to do something that they knew to be illegal. The disrespect for the law is there before the marijuana otherwise nobody would be using it, it is not created by the marijuana.



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07 Feb 2006, 8:46 pm

sc wrote:
I find it interesting how such a serious topic is discussed here in such light matters.

Gateway drug - YES

However not for all, but for those it is, it is - duh.


Humor is usefull for every circumstance. There are many medical benefits.

There is one thing that has not been brought up yet.
Balance.
Marijuanna will cause no harm if the individual does not use it very often.

I think your reason for marijuanna being illegal is because children will have access.
I know you don't like having posts off topic but please read me out.

Why should alcohol and cigarettes be illegal while marijuanna illegal?
I will post this site again.
It is a neutral site and displays the chemical properties of most drugs.

http://www.erowid.org/

This is from the British House of Lords, Pharmacology (link off main site)
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/uk_lords_report/Pharmacology.shtml

Quote:
3.2 The family of chemically related 21­carbon alkaloids found uniquely in the cannabis plant are known as cannabinoids. There are more than 60 different cannabinoids; one of these, D9­tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), is the most abundant and accounts for the intoxicating properties of cannabis. Other cannabinoids which occur in some abundance (e.g. cannabidiol and cannabinol) are not psychoactive, but it is thought that they may modify the effects of THC. The amounts and proportions of the various cannabinoids in each plant vary from strain to strain, and can be adjusted by breeding. By coincidence, the chemistry and pharmacology of cannabis were among the principal interests of the late Lord Todd, when he worked at Manchester University in the 1930s; he went on to become, among other things, the first Chairman of the House of Lords Select Committee on Science and Technology on its establishment in 1979.

3.4 Smoking delivers 30 per cent or more of the total THC in a cannabis cigarette to the blood stream. The proportion of THC absorbed after taking cannabis by mouth is 2-3 times less, because after absorption in the gut the drug is largely degraded by metabolism in the liver before it reaches the general circulation. Preliminary reports indicate that absorption into the circulation can be increased if THC is administered by rectal suppository, as this route delivers the drug directly into the circulation, avoiding the liver.

3.5 Once THC has entered the bloodstream, it is widely distributed in the body, especially in fatty tissues. The slow release of THC from these tissues produces low levels of drug in the blood for several days after a single dose, but there is little evidence that any significant pharmacological effects persist for more than 4-6 hours after smoking or 6-8 after oral ingestion. The persistence of the drug in the body, and the continuous excretion of degradation products in the urine, can however give rise to cannabis­positive forensic tests days or even weeks after the most recent dose. (The implications of this for roadside testing of drivers are considered below, at paragraph 4.9.)

3.6 According to Professor Trevor Robbins, speaking for the Medical Research Council (MRC), "Cannabinoid pharmacology has exploded in the last decade¼, opening up¼all sorts of exciting possibilities" (Q 628). These advances are reviewed in evidence to this Committee by the Royal Society and by Dr Roger Pertwee of the University of Aberdeen[5]. It is now recognised that THC interacts with a naturally occurring system in the body, known as the cannabinoid system. THC takes effect by acting upon cannabinoid receptors (see Box 1). Two types of cannabinoid receptor have been identified: the CB1 receptor and the CB2 receptor. CB1 receptors are present on nerve cells in the brain and spinal cord as well as in some peripheral tissues (i.e. tissues outside the brain); CB2 receptors are found mainly on cells of the immune system and are not present in the brain.

3.14 Other recent scientific findings indicate a relationship between the cannabinoid system in the brain and the naturally occurring opioid system[8]. The ability of THC to trigger dopamine release in the rat brain is blocked by prior administration of naloxone, a drug that selectively blocks the actions of opiates in the brain. This suggests that some of the psychoactive effects of THC and other cannabinoids may be mediated indirectly through an ability to activate the opioid system (Pertwee Q 311). Recent studies have also shown that the administration of THC to animals enhances the pain-relieving effects of morphine and related opiates. Furthermore, administration of naloxone (the opiate-blocker) to animals previously treated repeatedly with a cannabinoid produced some physical withdrawal signs; conversely, administration of a cannabinoid antagonist to animals previously dependent on heroin elicited some (but not all) of the signs of opiate withdrawal (see Appendix 4, paragraph 8 ). On the other hand, although some of the actions of THC may involve activation of the opioid system, THC does not mimic morphine or heroin either in its effects on animals or in the subjective experience of human users


I don't understand some of that myself.
I hear that THC does have medicinal properties which can make it addictive.
An addiction is caused when your brain no longer makes a neurotransmitter because something else is supplying the neurotransmitter.
Since Marijuanna does help alleviate pain, if someone were to take too much over a long period of time, then that person would become addicted.
It has already been proven that marijuanna by itself cannot cause death unless you suffocate off of it.


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Remnant
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07 Feb 2006, 9:10 pm

"Awesome", the people who are backed by the law are backed by a law that they made, by deception and manipulation. The Constitution is obviously just a piece of paper to them because they don't treat it as a law.



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07 Feb 2006, 9:34 pm

Well, I don't like alcohol or tobacco either so does my position make more sense now? However, I do support medicine, this can include marijuana so long as it is used as medicine.



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07 Feb 2006, 9:42 pm

Remnant wrote:
"Awesome", the people who are backed by the law are backed by a law that they made, by deception and manipulation. The Constitution is obviously just a piece of paper to them because they don't treat it as a law.

So, the law is the law. Besides, what are the violations of the constitution that you speak of? Banning marijuana is no violation of the constitution and banning drugs is not something that we have never done before in our nation's history. Heck, we even constitutionally banned alcohol so what are the legal problems with the ban on recreational marijuana? There is no problems with obeying a law, it isn't a hard law to obey and use of marijuana is not even a necessity for people who use it recreationally. Heck, really it would probably be better for people if they didn't use marijuana or alcohol or tobacco. Healthier at least.



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07 Feb 2006, 10:00 pm

And banning marijuana is a hell of a lot more damaging to people's health and society's health than is using marijuana. That just goes right by you, like the fact that we can use the plant for a lot of applications that petroleum is a poor substitute for. And I have real problems with obeying a law that was obtained by deception, tramples human rights, and inspires such hideous behavior in law enforcement and so-called society.



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07 Feb 2006, 10:10 pm

Banning marijuana is not really that horrendous to human health. Allowing the stuff to spread freely would though. I don't want to walk down the street trying to stay upwind of the stoners. I am perfectly healthy with marijuana not being legal and smoke would not be good for me anyway because I have asthma. If we legalized marijuana then we would probably also have people smoking marijuana, this would not be good for me because of my asthma and my desire for a smokefree environment. Tobacco is bad enough.

The hemp used for marijuana is not effective for recreational use anyway. We can allow that hemp to be grown because it is a different plant than the one that marijuana users like to use anyway. Hemp grown for biomass makes very poor grade marijuana and industrial hemp is not useful for marijuana either.

Honestly I don't care if you do have problems with obeying the law. It is the law. You may disagree with it but you can also vote to repeal it, however, drug use is not a human right. No force ever gave the right to use whatever drug that makes the fairies come back to talk to you. It is not in the Constitution, it is not in any foundation document that I have ever heard of. The fact that you consider it a right is your own justification of your behavior, it is not a right and it never was a right.



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07 Feb 2006, 10:37 pm

The fact that you consider it to not be a right is a justification of your own behavior, which is destructive of other human lives.

With two million people in jail for marijuana-related offenses, with a lot of glaucoma victims who have been unable to get medical marijuana, with a lot of people using god-awful drugs instead of marijuana, the health damages caused by the ban have been tremendous. If you and yours want to promote such a ban, take responsibility for the damage that it causes.



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07 Feb 2006, 10:47 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
I am perfectly healthy with marijuana not being legal and smoke would not be good for me anyway because I have asthma. If we legalized marijuana then we would probably also have people smoking marijuana, this would not be good for me because of my asthma and my desire for a smokefree environment. Tobacco is bad enough.


You just took a dump in your pants there AG :lol: Cannabis smoke is a treatment for asthma. (Its a vaso-dilator or something)

Quote:
Honestly I don't care if you do have problems with obeying the law. It is the law. You may disagree with it but you can also vote to repeal it, however, drug use is not a human right.


Sacramental use of drugs IS a human right (in the US legal sense). Native american indians living in the US are allowed to use peyote.

Quote:
No force ever gave the right to use whatever drug that makes the fairies come back to talk to you.


The drug your unwittingly referring to (associated with visions of elves/fairies) is the illegal psychedelic DMT. It is an endogenous transmitter and present in every human brain.



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07 Feb 2006, 10:59 pm

Cannibis smoke is also damaging to the lungs and can cause cancer. I typed that thinking of the affects of cigarette smoke on the lungs and considering that the smoke from dope is as bad or worse than that from tobacco. At the very least I am correct in not wanting damaging smoke to be near my lungs as I tend to do relatively well and don't need the extra medication but would simply prefer to avoid any harm. I really don't want to have to deal with smelly stoners hanging out in front of my favorite places to eat and such.

I don't think that marijuana is the religious drug of any of the people arguing here.

Right, I was simply using that to illustrate a point. I have never heard of marijuana being causing fairies but mentioning the fairies is not the way that the pro-drug people usually want to be seen.

I do not have any problems with medicinal marijuana. I don't like recreational marijuana though. There is a difference. The 2 million people who are in jail are there because they chose to violate the law, we should really make jails provide cheap labor for society to mitigate the costs of supporting prison. The people on harder drugs are hardly even related to legalizing or illegalizing marijuana. Heck, there might be more if we do legalize marijuana considering the current status of marijuana as a gateway drug. However, the legalization of marijuana would do nothing for the people that are taking the hard drugs anyway, they still probably would have done it as they probably aren't affected by the legality of marijuana.