Does anyone else have any politically radical ideas?

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artrat
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10 Jan 2012, 11:20 pm

puddingmouse wrote:

artrat wrote:

I want there to be a world revolution and destroy capitalism and other oppressive forms of government.
I want international, democratic socialism. I want the stock market to crash and to not be so dependent of technology.
Drugs should be legal since the drug addicts get them anyway. It would save room in prison.

Are you a primitivist? I know an anarcho-primitivist. It's harmless enough as an ideology if you just want to make like the Amish and form your own commune, but as plan for any large number of people to follow, it sucks.

Technology is the only reason we can keep the world population so high. A primitivist ideology is one that necessitates extremely high rates of starvation and death for a time. People won't voluntarily keep the population down in some cultures (some are obsessed with churning out more humans) - so in order to achieve the needed huge population drop without everyone starving to death you would need to hold off on the 'back to nature' policies whilst meanwhile doing one or more of the following:
1. forced sterilisation
2. one-child policy (this takes too long)
3. genocide of fast-breeding populations
Or you could just let people starve to death on an unprecedented scale. I mean, it's okay as personal philosophy, but I wonder how many primitivists have thought through what the widespread implications would be. If they have, and they're still primitivists, then they must be really misanthropic.

I love tech btw, and I don't understand why someone would want to do with less of it.

Also, I noticed that you think there would still be prison in a post-revolutionary society. That's interesting.

I was talking about prisons that we have right now. We will probably never have a world revolution anytime soon so we need to fix the prisons that we have now.

I am not a priminitivst
The problem with depending on technology for everything is computers could crash. I have nothing against technology but the world needs an alternative.
I don't want them to crash but we should not depend on them for everything. We should prepare for it by planting crops on the rooftops of city buildings. There is a group of scientist in New York planning for the possible crash of technology.

Socialism will not work properly without it being international.That means the whole world would have to be socialist. My dream will probably never come true.

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Last edited by artrat on 11 Jan 2012, 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tequila
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11 Jan 2012, 1:06 am

It sounds like a living death for the world's people.

peebo
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11 Jan 2012, 2:16 am

michel foucault wrote:

What is so astonishing about the fact that our prisons resemble our factories, schools, military bases, and hospitals-all of which in turn resemble prisons?...

It would be pure illusion to believe that laws are made to be respected, or that the police and courts are intended to make them respected. Only in disembodied theory could we pretend that we have once and for all subscribed to the laws of the society to which we belong. It is common knowledge that laws are made by certain people for other people to keep.

But we can go further. Lawbreaking is not an accident, a more or less unavoidable imperfection. Rather, it is a positive element of the functioning of society. Its role is part of a general strategy. Every legislative arrangement sets up privileged and profitable areas where the law can be violated, others where it can be ignored, and others where infractions are sanctioned.

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Orwell
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11 Jan 2012, 2:37 am

skafather84 wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

baker has to buy wheat. a landlord does not have to buy a new house for you each month.
(this is why you can make so much money as a landlord)

A landlord has to pay property tax, pay for maintenance of the property both in terms of everything working within the home plus maintenance outside (the yard and what not). So it isn't like as if a landlord makes a static purchase. Though, there should be some incentives for lowered rent costs.

The rent is too damn high!

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11 Jan 2012, 5:29 pm

In many ways I'm more or less alright with the way things are (in the UK). If I really wasn't happy with the situation I would expect to be doing something more radical about it than buying the odd bit of free-range or organic food and voting every few years.

I was recently looking around the world (on the internet) at some other countries I might live in and it was then that I realised a greater preference for and appreciation of the liberties already afforded to me by my own society. We are largely free, if we really want it, to make what we want of our lives, free to leave our home country, free to start a radical political movement. Yes, there are constraints but they are largely what provides the stability within which those freedoms can be expressed - more a benefit than a hindrance.

That's not to say I don't get upset or frustrated by most of the things that most other people do, and I am all for greater understanding and honesty in assessing our collective situation and finding ways to make it better overall.

artrat
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11 Jan 2012, 11:30 pm

puddingmouse wrote:

Tequila wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

Or you could just let people starve to death on an unprecedented scale. I mean, it's okay as personal philosophy, but I wonder how many primitivists have thought through what the widespread implications would be. If they have, and they're still primitivists, then they must be really misanthropic.

I've heard of this ideology before. It is astonishingly disgusting and repellent. It takes some beating, put it that way.

When you take it to its natural conclusion, yes. I'm often shocked by people's inability/unwillingness to do that.

I don't know if artrat hates tech and is a primitivist necessarily; she could feel, as a number of people do and have done in every age, that tech detracts from the full human experience and robs humans of their self-sufficiency. I disagree because it's very subjective as to what the 'human experience' should be and I doubt I could even survive in the wild if I wanted to, which I don't.

Are you and tequila the same person ? After this post I am convinced that you are.

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Dox47
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12 Jan 2012, 12:16 am

Orwell wrote:

The rent is too damn high!

I demand you retract that statement, Orwell; you don't have the epic facial hair for it!

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puddingmouse
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12 Jan 2012, 12:35 am

artrat wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

Tequila wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

I've heard of this ideology before. It is astonishingly disgusting and repellent. It takes some beating, put it that way.

Are you and tequila the same person ? After this post I am convinced that you are.

No.

We live not for away from each other and I have met him in person. Trust me, there are many, many things that I disagree with him on. I just took to his habit of bolding people's usernames because I like it, if that's what you mean. I won't do it in future.

Or I might change my avatar to a big hammer and sickle, if that would help.

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artrat
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12 Jan 2012, 12:58 am

puddingmouse wrote:

artrat wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

Tequila wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

I've heard of this ideology before. It is astonishingly disgusting and repellent. It takes some beating, put it that way.

Are you and tequila the same person ? After this post I am convinced that you are.

No.

We live not for away from each other and I have met him in person. Trust me, there are many, many things that I disagree with him on. I just took to his habit of balding people's user names because I like it, if that's what you mean. I won't do it in future.

Or I might change my avatar to a big hammer and sickle, if that would help.

It was bolding usernames but now I believe that you and tequila are two different people.

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puddingmouse
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12 Jan 2012, 12:59 am

artrat wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

artrat wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

Tequila wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

I've heard of this ideology before. It is astonishingly disgusting and repellent. It takes some beating, put it that way.

Are you and tequila the same person ? After this post I am convinced that you are.

It was bolding usernames but now I believe that you and tequila are two different people.

lol, I said 'balding' usernames.

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unduki
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12 Jan 2012, 1:13 am

1. Annex Mexico

2. If everyone can't have a penis, no one should.

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12 Jan 2012, 1:30 am

Dox47 wrote:

Orwell wrote:

The rent is too damn high!

I demand you retract that statement, Orwell; you don't have the epic facial hair for it!

I'm not too far off, actually. Although I don't shave my beard into that pattern. Perhaps I should.

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ruveyn
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12 Jan 2012, 3:35 am

How about governments not spending any more money than they take in by way of taxes, fees and sales of assets. In short outlay should not exceed income.

The very idea takes my breath away.

ruveyn

Tequila
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14 Jan 2012, 8:35 am

artrat wrote:

Are you and tequila the same person ? After this post I am convinced that you are.

No, we're not. Definitely not.

I'm a right-wing classical liberal nationalist anti-EU type, she's a left-wing socialist nanny-stater. Poles apart, basically. Though we do agree on the EU and on mass immigration, that's about it I think.

puddingmouse wrote:

No.

Correct.

puddingmouse wrote:

We live not for away from each other

Yes, it's about 40 miles isn't it? Nearly an hour in the car.

puddingmouse wrote:

and I have met him in person.

And I nearly gave you a perforated eardrum through being such a loudmouth.

I did drink too much though. Again. If we meet again, I'll try and stick to the espresso and I'll never attempt that poxy market again at the weekend!

puddingmouse wrote:

Trust me, there are many, many things that I disagree with him on.

See above.

puddingmouse wrote:

I just took to his habit of bolding people's usernames because I like it, if that's what you mean. I won't do it in future.

The cease and desist letters are being sent as we speak, love.

puddingmouse wrote:

Or I might change my avatar to a big hammer and sickle, if that would help.

Here you go:

Though I would think as a socialist and not a communist a red flag would be more to your taste.

All together now:

Quote:

An unbreakable union of free republics,
Great Rus' joined together forever.
Long live the creation of the will of the peoples,
The united, the mighty Soviet Union!

CHORUS:
Be glorified, our fatherland, united and free!
The sure bulwark of the friendship of the peoples!
Flag of the Soviets, Flag of the people,
Let it lead from victory to victory!

Through storms the sun of freedom has shined upon us,
And the great Lenin has lighted the way
Stalin has taught us faithfulness to the people,
To labour, and inspired us to great feats!

CHORUS:
Be glorified, our fatherland, united and free!
The sure bulwark of the happiness of the peoples!
Flag of the Soviets, Flag of the people,
Let it lead from victory to victory!

We brought our army to the battles.
We shall brave the despicable invaders from the street!
In battles we shall decide the fate of generations,
We shall lead to the glory of the Motherland!

CHORUS:
Be glorified, our fatherland, united and free!
The sure bulwark of the glory of the peoples!
Flag of the Soviets, Flag of the people,
Let it lead from victory to victory!

artrat wrote:

It was bolding usernames but now I believe that you and tequila are two different people.

Good; I'm glad we've got that sorted out.

you_are_what_you_is
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14 Jan 2012, 7:41 pm

Yes, I have a lot of radical ideas. If I were king, society would look very different indeed.

.

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Dox47
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15 Jan 2012, 6:52 am

Orwell wrote:

I'm not too far off, actually. Although I don't shave my beard into that pattern. Perhaps I should.

Perhaps I've misjudged you Orwell, everyone knows that deep political thought requires outlandish facial hair, and it sounds like you have what it takes. I prefer the Victorian handlebar mustache myself, as it can be waxed up for a V for Vendetta look or down for more of a Dr. Watson, or even straight out for western gunslinger. You sound like you might have the Marx/UNIX programmer thing going on, especially if paired with suspenders. Just stay away from that creepy pencil thin chinstrap thing, that just looks skeevy on anyone, not properly epic at all.

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