What is it with Liberal Progressives Anyways

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Yeah, it probably is a fairly similar experience in reverse. I haven't had to see quite as many stupid liberals, so when I do encounter them it is more of a curiosity and less grating.

I guess I just have trouble seeing Inuyasha as the underdog despite him being outnumbered. Despite how much his fallacious arguments can annoy me, I'm inclined give him more credit than you do. He's not a weakling. He doesn't let the opposition get under his skin. He doesn't ever really whine about getting getting ganged up on or beat up by the big bad liberals. He's not like a lot of the other conservatives who have come and passed. He takes the hits, or actually it's more like he endlessly bobs and weaves, but the point is he never quits or changes his tune. When the argument isn't going his way he just baits and changes the topic. His actual arguments are terrible but he still manages to have control just by infuriating everyone. It's about like I'd imagine having a real life political debate with Sean Hannity or Glenn Beck in person would be like. I sure as hell don't feel sorry for either of those two just because their arguments are weak.

Maybe it is a waste of time and energy to get worked up over him, but we all have our vices. As for me, I had surgery just a few days ago and am off school, off work, and mostly couch-ridden. So basically it's pretty hard to pull myself away from this forum at this juncture. Unless I can find something better to do on the internet.

@Marshall

Actually, Inuyasha does posses the persecution complex so many Fundamentalist Christian Conservatives to have visited this form had. From the start he accused the left of being "intolerant" of him and "bigoted" and viewed himself as a hero fighting the "Alinskian tactics" of the left (no doubt, Inuyasha problem hasn't read anything by Alinsky or knows anything about him that isn't spoon-fed by the Chalkboard conspiracist or other propogandistic ideologues of the American Right).

I would say that an intellectually bleeding heart liberal approach to dealing with disingenious GOP operatives is much less effective than my angry leftist approach.

Inuyasha's persecution complex isn't really personal. It's just him repeating right wing talking points. I can tell when people are genuinely upset. Inuyasha seems pretty impervious.

Anyways, I actually agree with you. Dox seems to think it looks bad for all of us to be attacking someone "below us", but that kind of assumes that debating is about proving intellectual prowess or rhetorical skills. It's not about that for me. I don't have anything to prove. I simply find inuyasha's ideology rather irritating, even dangerous, especially since he isn't the only one. It's pretty hard not to respond when he posts what I think is a lot of nonsense, and dangerous nonsense at that. Is it a waste of time to engage with him? I don't know.

On second deliberation, I think you're right.



EDIT: Initally I just listed two sound reasons and said "two sound reasons". Later I added a third without correcting the verbal numerical reference. I have finally gotten around to doing that.

There's actually three pretty sound reasons to debate someone who's ideas are self-evidently absurd and will not bend to reason.

1) Sometimes there are observers who'd agree the guy is wrong, yet can't verbalize what's so intuitively laughable about the opponents claims. Verbalizing what's wrong with absurd things will help others identify the deeper reason a given ideologue is wrong rather than just "it's obvious".
2) Some people, those who follow intellectual style follows the Peripheral route of persuasion, actually will (fallaciously) be convinced by the "last guy replying" as an index of correctness. There's a lot more people like this than many arch-intellectualists would like to think. Repetition has been proved as an effective method to make even the most inane of ideas "common knowledge".
3) Almost all ultraconservative ideologues I have dealt with hit a point where they think "you know what, I've had enough of you rhetorically fighting back, let's de-escalate this and I'll try to be more reasonable".

I wasn't speaking to Inuyasha specifically when I spoke of underdogs, but to conservative arguments and principle in general on WP PPR. The liberal position is much better represented here than the conservative one, so I tend to critique liberals more often due to the disparity in opportunity as much as any personal feeling on the matter. I could and sometimes do critique conservatives and their ideas, but generally the rest of the board does a perfectly good job of that without my help. I'm sure that if this forum had a conservative bent, I'd soon be tagged as the board liberal for the same reasons I'm sometimes thought to be conservative here. I'm also not talking about conservatism at large in the world, just conservatism here in this forum. I'm certainly not suggesting that you feel sympathy for conservative (or any other brand) commentators, they know what they've signed up for.

I view Inuyasha (but not just him) personally as the political equivalent of a script kiddie hacker, he doesn't seem able to formulate original points and positions but rather deploys the arguments of others (not even good arguments either) and then uses more C&Ps to defend them. His "ability" to stay on message and deflect criticism isn't a strength but rather a compensating mechanism for a weakness, namely that he seems lost if dragged off of a fairly narrowly defined ideological framework. He may stay focused, but what is he accomplishing with it other than pissing off liberals? He's certainly personifying some of the worst conservative stereotypes with his insistence on the infallibility of Fox News, defense of torture, hypocrisy on big government, etc, so I can't imagine that anyone who doesn't already share his beliefs taking him at all seriously. Being very focused and energetic in an ineffective pursuit is still not being effective.



Hmm, I don't know if PPR is the best option for a peaceful recovery... Hopefully you'll be back on your feet soon though, the couch bound thing can be a real drag. I wasn't judging or anything, I was just sort of surprised that one guy was dominating the board so completely for the last couple weeks, and with so little actual content. Then again, I've gotten pretty good at compartmentalizing when talking politics, so maybe I just don't get the whole thing.

Vocal conservatives have gotten away with making many loudmouth threads that go away. If there ever was a "liberal" position on the board, it has long since been diluted into irrelevance by the hordes of vocal conservatives who've came on here since.

Probably there are more liberals on the board, but the conservatives are loud enough that they are probably represented at least as well.

@ Dox47

Quite frankly I couldn't care less what you think about me. But don't come crying to me when stuff happens that I warned them about.

@ Liberal Progressives

You still have yet to come up with a legit excuse as to why Fox News is the only news network in the US with a net positive when it comes to public trust. Even CNN doesn't have a net positive when it comes to trust.

Speaking of CNN isn't one of their reporters whom used to work at CBS quitting and going to Fox News. The man is a liberal too, so there goes your argument that Fox News is just a conservative mouthpiece. Fox News may have more conservatives working there than liberals, but conservatives are an endangered species if not extinct on the other media outlets (including CNN).

@Dox

You are correct that his style is ineffective against intellectuals and the majority of posters on this forum. I agree that his style is detrimental to the conservative cause if that cause is to try and convert intelligent people to the conservative side. However I think you're overestimating the intelligence of the general public. His style of propoganda obviously works on a segment of the population or shows like Glenn Beck or Hannity wouldn't be so popular.

Stop acting like an elitist. This is why the Democrats were thrown out of office in 2010, and why they will keep losing in 2012 if they don't shape up.





Really, I think one would find the average tea partier or person that watches Glenn Beck knows a lot more about what is actually going on in this country than you do. You seriously, underestimate the intelligence of the American People. Quite frankly, just because one is an intellectual, doesn't mean they can't also be an idiot when it comes to common sense and critical thinking.

It's people like you who have the problem with critical thinking. You just can't see the forest for the trees. Glenn Beck paints everyone who doesn't agree with his vision and the vision of his viewers as being part of a vast socialist conspiracy. Its just blatantly insulting to any non-right wing person and a perfect example of uncritical thinking.

go read the daily mail.

some 2.3 million people (as of 2008) trust it as a credible source of news, despite it being racist, facist bigoted and outright full of horsesh*t.

I'm sorry, but this is getting to be hysterical. Why would Juan Williams or Geraldo work at Fox News if they were as you claim they were?

You're largely missing my point; it's not your ideology I'm objecting to but the way in which you present it. There have been times when I've agreed with something you've said, but you've so completely destroyed your credibility as a poster here that defending you would be embarrassing. I've got my own ways of fighting the creeping encroachment of big government, and they don't involve endlessly parroting political entertainers either.

Thing is I haven't been parroting anything, if the "political entertainer" is saying something that the facts I have found through research match up, I'm gonna agree with that individual. Thing is Dox47, I think I have given a fairly good case as to the fact Fox News is a legitimate source. No matter how you slice it, people consider Fox News to be the most credible news media outlet.

Name one Conservative on MSNBC (Joe Scarbourogh isn't a Conservative) that has their own show or is a regular there. Cause I can name several liberals that either appear on Fox News regularly or have their own shows: Bob Beckel (regular on Hannity), Juan Williams (regular on Special Report, hosts O'Reilly Factor if Bill O'Reilly isn't there, sometimes shows up on Hannity), Geraldo (has his own show), Chris Walace (hosts Fox News Sunday), Kirsten Powers (regular on Hannity), Alan Colmes (semi-retired used to host Hannity & Colmes with Sean Hannity, now will make appearances on various shows), and those are just off the top of my head.