Draw up a list of perversions caused by religion:

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Well, that's going to be hard to say. In any case, I don't think the author has much reason to be bitter or resentful. He's just suspicious or cynical.

As well, a major part of the issue is just a particular manifestation.

I don't think it would be a hard sell at all. I do think that the sell would be better made by a person more versed in Asian culture and history though. However, Buddhism certainly has orders of celibacy. Buddhism certainly has religious rules, with some of these rules being non-productive for people or society. Buddhism, at least as commonly practiced certainly has hierarchies, and these hierarchies are not necessary. Buddhism even contributes to intellectual stagnation as a number of Buddhist texts and ideas are deeply intertwined with false supernatural claims.

Now, we can start trying to derive out the "essence" of Buddhism, but.... it isn't as if we can't attempt the same for any other religion either. The issue is that when regarding these other religions, we usually do not regard such a method as valid because the separation isn't that legitimate. Really though, the aspects that people are willing to accept as valid in Buddhism are very often the philosophical ideas, but not the more religious components.

I would agree with this... I also think a proper understanding of the philosophical framework would ultimately lead to a rejection of some of the religious components. And further, I think the more spiritually evolved one becomes, the less of a role they play.

But they exist as artifacts and synthesis. I'm not sure how much of a following Buddhism would have without them, because people seem universally attracted to religions with some of those qualities. The real question isn't whether "this religion is good" or "that religion is bad". It's whether we throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Well... He was just saying that Buddhism causes and exhibits these perversions. Yet Buddhism does not hold any belief in a supreme being/creator. So either these perversions are exhibited by those without the belief in a creator/supernatural/whatever... Or AG is incorrect in his assessment of Buddhism.

I'm fed up with the religious bullying of atheists like AG. He's a dogmatist of another order, and wastes his time trying to prevent people from finding comfort and peace wherever they may find it. I respect your atheism, and may perhaps share it. But I can't respect AG's methods... they're in poor taste.

When words are a sword topic

Religion at the personal level that makes one feel warm and rooted to the world is a good and postive method of coping in life. But too often people just have to try to sell what they believe to others, not understanding that others do not wish to share such "bounty." If such religion (including Buddhism mentioned, and I realize it does not have a creator deity at the helm) is as wonderful as others claim it is then those who want to try it should not be coerced. Just lay it out in the marketplace and let people come and browse, and if they choose, may adopt it. Stop the threats of otherworldly punishment and the pushy oratory blaming sinners and you would probably have more converts. No one pushed Atheism onto me. I chose this after careful study and realizing that I was not interested in community gatherings celebrating ideas and just quietly went on with my own thoughts, and that works for me.

And that is very respectable, sartresue. I am quite similar, if slightly more combative...

I don't think "spiritual evolution" actually exists. At least a spiritual evolution with levels of goodness. I mean, it's trivially true that spiritual ideas evolve, but.... no reason to consider some better/truer than others.

As for the "proper understanding" part.... I have doubts, but that's because everyone involved in their favorite sect who has liberal inclinations will often say something similar. I mean, even liberal Christians will make some of these claims, saying that the "stuff about homosexuality" is just an improper understanding of the prominence of love, and these are just artifacts of the time.

Well.... I don't see much of a baby, honestly. While it may be possible that people can be inspired and pull ideas from a religious heritage, I think this can mostly be done with autopsies, and I have my doubts that a lot of the ideas are that good that preservation is that important. Even further, the significant bads are likely going to stick around to some degree, unless we start strongly militating against certain kinds of claims.