Gun "control" - to protect or disarm the citizens?

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What is your opinion on gun laws?

The only good gun law is the Second Amendment	29%	[ 31 ]
The only good gun law is the Second Amendment	29%	[ 31 ]
There should be some kind of control but not as severe as in Europe	8%	[ 8 ]
There should be some kind of control but not as severe as in Europe	8%	[ 8 ]
There should be a license but not harder to get than the driving license	5%	[ 5 ]
There should be a license but not harder to get than the driving license	5%	[ 5 ]
Guns only belong in shooting clubs or by hunting	6%	[ 6 ]
Guns only belong in shooting clubs or by hunting	6%	[ 6 ]
I'm a total coward, outlaw every gun for civilians	3%	[ 3 ]
I'm a total coward, outlaw every gun for civilians	3%	[ 3 ]

Total votes : 106

Litigious
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26 Sep 2006, 9:47 am

BazzaMcKenzie wrote:

Litigious wrote:

...You're really something. You trust the cops and military to take the side of the good, but, my friend, I'm sorry to inform you that most of the time the cops and the military take orders of the one who is in charge....

Its worth remembering that up to a few years ago, most gun deathe in Victoria were Police shooting civilians. It caused a fuss and all Vic Police had to be retrained to try to make them less lethal.

At the time I was an active member of SSAA(Vic) - but now FGA - and SSAA banned Police from practicing at their range in Springvale because they couldn't hit the targets and were damaging the target frames and backstops.

Quartermass, do you still trust the Police?

A Swedish civilian gun owner must practice about twice a week in his shooting club or his license is revoked. A Swedish policeman, however, must only fire 50 rounds a year at practising... :roll:

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26 Sep 2006, 5:46 pm

BazzaMcKenzie wrote:

Litigious wrote:

To a degree. Not completely, of course, but I trust that the good elements outweigh the bad elements enough to at least do their job.

(In case you were wondering, my little crazed outburst was partly a quote from "The Young Ones", in the final episode of the first series. Young Ones fans, rejoice, while all ye lesser mortals despair! Wahahahahahaha!)

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DaveB78
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26 Sep 2006, 9:39 pm

Litigious wrote:

Quatermass wrote:

What if said government, in a country that has a second-amendment like law, orders the removal of guns, even legalising the removal of guns by force, eh? WILL the citizens resist it? Or will they be able to resist a government, even with their guns?

That's a tremendous problem. If G.W. Bush banned all guns in the US tomorrow, most Americans would probably either handle them over or bury them. That's totally wrong, of course.

For a Second Amendment or something very much like it to really function, 3 criterias must be fulfilled:

1. More than 50% of the population must possess guns able to use in a military or at least semimilitary fight.

2. These >50% of the population must be able to actually handle the guns like military men do.

3. These >50% must be absolutely determined to use them in such a situation without the slightest hesitation.

The problem is that most people today have a mentality that makes them hand the guns over without using them to what they were really made for to, namely to defend the guns themselves and their owners against oppressors.

The number of guns in the Us well exceed 50% of the popululation and we do know how to use them...one our great teachers, Col. Jeff Cooper passed away yesterday...as to the willingness issue...I point you to the lesson leaned in the Warsaw Ghetto...we are much better armed...MOLON LABE

By the way...the Second Amendmend does not grant us the right to bear arms, God grants us that right, the Second Amendment merely prevents the govenment from usurping that right.

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26 Sep 2006, 10:00 pm

DaveB78 wrote:

Litigious wrote:

Quatermass wrote:

Soooo, if God became tyrannical, you could bear arms against him, right?

Well, viva la revolution! Let's storm the Pearly Gates!

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DaveB78
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26 Sep 2006, 10:08 pm

http://www.dvc.org.uk/jeff/

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26 Sep 2006, 10:19 pm

Glad to see he had at least created some very succinct safety rules vis-a-vis shooting.

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26 Sep 2006, 10:23 pm

He didn't create them, he repeated them.

Litigious
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27 Sep 2006, 1:03 am

DaveB78 wrote:

That's good. Than for God's sake, never give up that right. Never.

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27 Sep 2006, 1:07 am

Quatermass wrote:

Soooo, if God became tyrannical, you could bear arms against him, right?

Well, viva la revolution! Let's storm the Pearly Gates!

Don't make fun of people who believe in God. I'm not a religious man myself, but I respect everyone that believes in his religion peacefully and don't force it upon others.

If there is a God, he will never become tyrannical. But every piece of s**t president or priar minister could.

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27 Sep 2006, 1:31 am

I'm not making fun of people who believe in God, or rather, not as much as I am making fun of those saying that guns are a God-given right. That is just ****ing hilarious! Liberty is a God-given right, not guns.

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Litigious
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27 Sep 2006, 2:21 am

There are mutually including each other. No free guns, no freedom.

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27 Sep 2006, 3:02 am

Litigious wrote:

There are mutually including each other. No free guns, no freedom.

(snort of amusement)

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Litigious
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27 Sep 2006, 3:28 am

There is nothing to laugh at. The coward oppressors take away the only defense that law abiding citizens have. There's nothing to laugh at at all.

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Litigious
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27 Sep 2006, 3:37 am

Do you agree with me that it's a human right to defend yourself? If yes, how would you do that if the criminals and corrupt authorities have fire arms and you haven't? If no, don't complain when you're getting enslaved.

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27 Sep 2006, 4:28 am

Once again, you are confusing the issue of the right to self-defence, and the right to own a firearm. It is possible for the two to be mutually exclusive, but your mind is forever blinded to any such possibility. You just want to purchase a gun for one of two reasons:

1. Empowerment (albeit in a Freudian manner)

2. To see a living thing's blood and/or entrails exit violently from said organim's body.

This, of course, does not apply to responsible gun owners, who know what using a firearm entails. If they hunt for food rather than for enjoyment, then I say alright. If they shoot someone in self defense when all other options have failed or there are no other options, then I am for it.

Litigious, I must ask you something. You did not answer my question as to what two things that cannot feasibly be banned by even a despotic government that could be used against said government. I am talking in a very real, practical sense, not a metaphorical sense.

Besides, if a government takes away guns, there are ways to make home-made ones. I read a forensic paper on the variety of home-made guns in India...

You are living in one of the best countries (viewed objectively) in the world, as am I. I would love to live in Sweden, given what I have read about it.

Do you view Charlton Heston as a hero, Litigious?

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27 Sep 2006, 4:41 am

Oh, yeah, and as an addendum, your circular logic is going to make you dizzy. :lol:

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