If a person is defective, they should be eliminated

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I do not like the notion of living beings as being "defective", as they are not machines.

I always think I should be eliminated because I do not feel valuable for society. But then again, I have never been motivated to engage. Everything I associate with organised work (i.e. in a company or other institution) is work I will never be capable of. Because I will never meet their expectations.

Does this mean I should be eliminated, that it is my own fault?

Of course. ^^

The real fact we never talk about... Human beings are by definition defective.

Kill us all.

You first.

ruveyn

Society tends to hit tipping points where its been too nice for too long and feels forced to do dirty work to that extent. My guess - with medical technology it will more likely be kill or cure, and they'd rather take cure since it raises fewer ethical problems and doesn't leave that society loathing itself.

It is in human nature, but often emotion either causes or keeps us from doing it logically. How ironic!

I think we should just try to find ways of killing those that aren't really contributing to the world and keeping their organs in spare reserves to help those that are making life better or not harming anyone.

Here's the catch though: how do we know when they are truly worthless? There is a quote that comes to mind: "No man is an island."

One death can set off a chain reaction of familial depressions which could bring out traits that caused their family members to die unless we scare people into not showing those traits at all. Repression does not work.

I think we should just focus on altering the genome to try to make us better as a species. However, even this is a risky business. We could seriously damage one another.

SO in the actual finish, I say morality has a say in questioning science. We just don't know what makes someone "defective." Hell, most of us are defective to at least one other person.

If you find yourself on the short list, will you go to your death without complaining?

ruveyn

I kind of wonder if we should do what the Aztecs did, not literally but an abstraction. For those who would be on the 'short list', have an optional social contract where they can have a middle class life and a comfortable out so long as they opt to have their fertility ended.

^ I want on that list!

By definition, if you support this notion and you're on this board you will be killed off. Autism and Aspergers are viewed by NT's as being defects.

Believe it or not I doubt that's lost on most people posting in this thread. We are however talking about a real dynamic in nature and, unfortunately, its an incredibly relevant one because society can be nice until it hits a threshold where its kindness is financially strapping it too much; when and if that happens something can snap so to speak. I'd much rather think we'll come up with cures for diseases or conditions and ways to justify human worth from an atheistic frame or at least, ultimately, humane ways of dealing with the issue of decidedly bad DNA in the collective pool.

Not all Nts. Some understand Asperger's Syndrome as an alternative mode of operation. Statistically it is an outlier, but no defect. Different, not worse.

ruveyn

OTOH though, when weighed against a society, anything that's abrasive ends up being a problem.

Eliminating every person that has any kind of defect will reduce the human population to zero, as no one is perfect.

I trust that Yupa realises that this includes him/her?

If NT's were making the rules? Yes.


That would be making the false assumption that I endorse the idea of genocide - I don't.


Its an incredibly selfish and animalistic society that we live in. The less ethical and more self-centered people get, the harder economies get strained, the more 'apt' or likely they are to start pondering such solutions. I'm not saying it would necessarily ever come to that in the bigger scheme of things but this is a topic that needs serious attention because it will be on people's minds, I'd hate to see anyone successfully demagogue on behalf of the idea, and I also worry about all the anti-cure autistics mainly because I wonder quite often if they really know the full scope and vulnerability of our situation.

That I suppose raises a question - is life turning me into a psychopath? I'd give the shirt off my back if someone needed it but, I have to argue, humanity is its own jungle and the predators/prey hammers/nails scenario is very much real and very much alive today as much as its ever been. Again, that's not my endorsement of things as they are - that's what I find myself fighting and it seems like the only way a person can actually assert peace in their own lives is by getting the bullies under their thumb or finding someone who's both benevolent and a much better fighter (either physically or psychologically) to band together with or gain protection from.


No, that means they *would* be killing people with any disability or anything that made a person inconvenient, tougher to understand, needing more attention or assistance than another person, etc.

I can give you an answer though as to why I think genocide is utter insanity - 'inconvenience' is relative and even if all the supposed 'disabled', slow, or different were liquidated in some final solution, you'd still have a new bottom rung in that society and they could complete shedding their skin into open graves until they inbred themselves to death because the gene pool remaining would be too thin and too interconnected.

To tell the truth though I do worry a lot about the future, even moreso in watching my generation and half feeling like we simply aren't 'growing up', rather too many of us are just turning into grown kids and it seems like our society has some kind of war on integrity and standards. The less integrity and backbone people have and the more easily you can 'kill my high' with regard to someone who's a self-centered brat, the more likely they are to be selfish enough to be in favor of simply shedding the weak.

BTW, on the first part I clearly don't mean ALL NT's and I know most are decent people and, like us, like any, they're dealing with the same struggles for existence, meaning, sorting out who they are and what to do with their strengths and frailties on this void called Earth. What I would argue regardless though is that we are still in the 'compassion' category by and large, that's a bad spot to be in if society hits its economic saturation point for tolerating that.

Its dangerous for them because, I really get the impression the more liberal and entitled we start thinking (the "I can't hold a job, I live off the system but don't you dare try to cure me - I'm not disabled, just different") the faster we move autism to the sh**list and, I really hate to say it but, I don't think the left is out to help people at all - if anything I think goodhearted people are just used as Trotsky's 'useful idiots' and once the changes take place they'll be disposed of fast once the current checks and balances to keep something like that from happening are gone.


The part that seems irresistable is that we don't have any means to force people to be better or to assert self-control where their rampant egotism and narcissism is making society callous. Its partly why I think we really need to be as good at keeping stiff upper lip as we are at talking to each other about our grievances with the world or how it treats us; essentially they place people in heirarchy based on strength or weakness and the more weakness we show the more they see us as marks.

Do I think humanity may eventually have it in itself to be better? Yes - but, we'll need to defeat the root causes of our own evil (mainly the permanency of genes and genetic determinism to undermine our eugenic streak, which is still almost as bad as most other animals on the earth). Seriously, if we can't make people give a damn about doing the right thing the only thing we can do is make the root causes of evil obsolete.


I'm not against it but then again I'm not particularly sure what we'll accomplish either.

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