Why use guns for killing

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Depends on factors like how fast and skilled the guy with the knife is and how alert, skilled, and quick the guy with the gun is.
With even moderate practice and a halfway decent holster you should be able to draw on someone even when they are already moving against you from 20 ft. (or even less) and get a shot or two off before they get to you. A lot of that drawing practice can be practiced at home with an unloaded pistol. Then, of course, live fire at the shooting range.
In all but a few states you can't legally wear a gun in the open (open carry). It usually always has to be fully concealed at all times and can't come out of the holster in public without emergency justification.

Alertness is really an ass saving mindset. The sooner you see the threat the better. Even if they don't do anything you'll at least be aware of them.
Also, if you look alert you are a more challenging target than someone that is always pre-occupied or has their ahead down. Chances are the bad guy wants a quick no hassle score.
Can't really cover everything because there are so many variables and I don't know everything, anyway.

Technically, a bomb is eons more effective than a firearm. However, one needs to deliberately plan such for some time, which tends to go against the mindset of a rampage killer.

It's why "terrorists" and "rebels" will use such.

please delete, double post

Last edited by aSKperger on 03 Aug 2012, 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Your best statement yet. Absolutely true. So why all that gun agenda, if circumstances are crucial?




WTF? Don't know what are you talking about.



I think justifiable defence is where do we miss each other. How do you see it? "Victim" is always in the right... to "protect" by all means? Doesn't matter if "attacker" calls you moron, steals your snack or gang rapes your doughter?


Wouldn't be so sure. But again:

= you need to see it coming. This skill is most crucial one. And the one hardest to master. It is very difficult to train it, almost impossible to simulate (in home conditions), and psychically very exhausting to keep for a longer time. So people don't. "Nothing can happen here; it/he/she is safe; I know him/it here"
You never know. Prevention aka avoiding attack, that's first and strongest defence line. Gun? Fourth or fifth, and only if attacker (or luck) allows you to use it.

Indeed, variables abound in this field.

I'm talking averages as well, and I somehow doubt your average person can get off a fast draw and accurate shot in such a short time frame. A skilled shooter or particularly athletic knife man would skew the distances all to hell.

Depending on the circumstances lethal force may or may not be warranted. If it is warranted it won't do much good not to have one available.
Better to have and not need than to need and not have.



When you're against the average citizen being armed for their protection where society's predators don't play by the rules then you are stacking the cards against them.


The victim being defined as the one under attack with the intent of being killed or maimed.


There's nothing sure about it either way. Have you ever even tried any of this?



Walk the way you drive (or should drive). Be aware and prepared to do whatever to avoid cars coming together including taking notice of bad drivers.
Some situations and places call for more alertness than others. No one said you can practice this at home. I was talking about practicing drawing an unloaded pistol from concealment and nothing more.

It's pretty obvious that someone texting while they walk through a dark parking lot at night is going to appear to be an easier score than someone with their head up, eyes looking, and antenna up. Better chance that person will be able to thwart an attack by whatever means since they are at least cognizant of the possibly of an attack. The head down in his own little world texter would never consider being attaced since he figures he has no enemies. He'd be to surprised and shocked to even try before it's all over.

It's rather well understood with defense minded people to avoid poorly lit areas and bad neighborhoods when at all possible.

I could go on and on about the dos and don'ts of all this but we both know any further discussion is moot.
We both came to this debate with our minds made up in the first place.

Out of interest, Raptor, how many times have you needed to pull out a gun to stop an attack?

Abacacus wrote:

Variables abound everywhere. I drive 50 miles round trip to work 5 days a week with variables, some beyond my control, that could keep me from reaching my destination or even seeing the end of the day. I accept that risk and press on. If I'm on the freeway and some senile old fart comes barreling ass in the wrong direction (seen it happen more than once) I may or may not see the threat in time to swerve or whatever to save myself.
I'll be just as dead from an 80 mph head-on with another car as with a 9mm bullet in my brain.


Again, it would take practice to do that and even then nothing is guaranteed if the time comes to use it in a real situation. Even if they are at point blank or have already stabbed you by the time you fire your first shot better late than never. Have you ever done any defensive shooting practice with a handgun to come to that conclusion?

I do practice fairly often even though not as much as I think I should ideally. It’s never about guaranteeing anything but about building a skill-set that will take over if the time comes. I've learned decent defensive driving skills from driving a lot in all conditions so when someone does come down the wrong way, pull out in front of me, or whatever else I'll be at least better prepared than if I was new to driving.

I haven't had to shoot anyone. Beyond that I don't really see going further with your question since you've already made your mind up, anyway.

You can train for this. It's not all that difficult and can be learned in as little as a day. It's even a scenario used in some rounds in IDPA competitions. You need a holster and wardrobe suited for a quick draw, put a round in their stomach with the gun at your hip, put a round in their sternum with the gun almost at shoulder level, and put a shot in their head with the gun at eye level. From the time you think to reach for your gun to the time the third casing hits the ground will be around a second.

If you have a 9 in the front of your pants, or in a coat pocket, you can pull it out and bust a cap in his ass!


I'd probably go for the stomach first, but if that didn't stop him I'd shoot him in the face which is almost always a guaranteed kill.

There are dozens of such incidents within a quarter mile around me every year. Other incidents happened as little as 10 minutes before or after being at some place. It's not that they don't happen, it's by luck it hasn't happened to me yet.

I take that back- does a carload of ravers chasing me and honking at me for no rational reason (there was nothing wrong with my car, I didn't hit them, and there wasn't any traffic violation when this started) count as a need for a gun? Or how about the kid that was going door to door for some fundraiser, but was high and confrontational?

Rampage killers do usually plan ahead by at least several months. It's not like some experienced shooter wakes up one morning and decides takes their gear to the mall. Since nobody is going to do anything to make mental health services easier to get and try to make it friendly to potential active shooters, we should at least do nothing that would make them more paranoid and adapt and learn even deadlier techniques.

How many times have you needed to pull out a fire extinguisher to stop a fire?

Believe it or not I was going to use that.
I was going to mention that I keep a fire extinguisher in the kitchen and since it hasn't been needed (yet) I should just get rid of it before someone drops it on their foot.
They'll never be able or willing to grasp it so why bother.


All this handwringing we've endured over gun control the past few weeks has put me in the mood to go shooting so that's what I'm going to do this afternoon.

It's a wonderful metaphor that people should use more often. I've used it an awful lot since I came across it somewhere.

Oh man I can't wait til I get my gun licence. I wanna go rent a TAR-21 and do some plinking or something, those things cost like 3k.