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It's stupid when feminists say that porn is misogynistic

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MindBlind
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03 Jun 2013, 5:18 am

Making the porn industry illegal is dangerous. Why? Because it turns it into a black market activity in which there are no regulations or health and safety laws to protect the performers. They wouldn't be able to turn to the police if they are being exploited because they are criminals; they might not even get paid and may even be sex slaves; the people who buy the pornography would be criminalized, even though that puts the performers in even more danger....hm, what does that sound like? Yeah - the current state of prostitution!

It didn't work with prostitution. It didn't work with drugs. Why the f**k would it work with pornography (which i see as a form of prostitution, btw).

Sorry, but these are grown adults. They can make their own decisions about their bodies and if they want to make money from that, they should legally be allowed to do so. If that means that women are "sexually objectified", then so be it. You do not defend women's rights by telling us what we can and cannot do with our bodies. That is misogyny.

MCalavera
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03 Jun 2013, 5:18 am

Ok, about the study, fair enough about the damaged goods bit being rejected. They do acknowledge issues such as the definition of porn star and all that, but one thing that bugs me is that the comparison group was convenience sampled rather than randomly, so this may have had an effect on the results being that porn stars have higher self-esteem than the "typical woman".

puddingmouse
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03 Jun 2013, 7:23 am

MindBlind wrote:

Making the porn industry illegal is dangerous. Why? Because it turns it into a black market activity in which there are no regulations or health and safety laws to protect the performers. They wouldn't be able to turn to the police if they are being exploited because they are criminals; they might not even get paid and may even be sex slaves; the people who buy the pornography would be criminalized, even though that puts the performers in even more danger....hm, what does that sound like? Yeah - the current state of prostitution!

It didn't work with prostitution. It didn't work with drugs. Why the f**k would it work with pornography (which i see as a form of prostitution, btw).

Sorry, but these are grown adults. They can make their own decisions about their bodies and if they want to make money from that, they should legally be allowed to do so. If that means that women are "sexually objectified", then so be it. You do not defend women's rights by telling us what we can and cannot do with our bodies. That is misogyny.

I think the porn industry should be legal, it's just that its current practices don't sit well with me ethically. That's why I try to watch just amateur porn,

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Schneekugel
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03 Jun 2013, 7:33 am

abacacus wrote:

nessa238 wrote:

In my opinion there's no point debating this issue with people who like porn, as the very fact that a person likes watching porn indicates a course, insensitive attitude to life in general, hence you are not going to relate to the nuances of the argument or care about what happens to the people involved.

All I would say is that people ought to watch the film 'Requiem for a Dream', which depicts the often brutal reality for people involved in the porn and sex industries. If you can watch the last scene of that film and not feel sickened then there's no hope for you in my opinion as it's designed to be shocking and I would put money on all the porn-watchers not batting an eyelid at it as their sensibilities will have been hardened.

And you demonstrate a tendency to be judgmental, uncaring, and rather daft with that first statement. What's life like in black and white?

Shocker films are just that- shocker films. Back away from fiction and bring some reality in here.

Cool. Would you dare to say that in front of an cinema audience after seeing "Schindlers list".

"Yeah, I know its based on reality and it really happened. But that right now was just a film based on it, so the people we saw right now dying and getting shotted, were only actots, so no need to feel bad for the real person behind that film, because the film itself is only a fake." If there will ever be a 9/11 cinemafilm, I am willing to bet about 10.000 USD with you, that if I would say that nonsense to the audience, after the end of the film, that I need police support. "Oh its based on reality... but its only a film. So the actors you saw flying down 250 meters until their brain was splashed had parashoots! So come down!" ^^

Ancalagon
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03 Jun 2013, 9:23 am

Schneekugel wrote:

abacacus wrote:

Shocker films are just that- shocker films. Back away from fiction and bring some reality in here.

Cool. Would you dare to say that in front of an cinema audience after seeing "Schindlers list".

"Schindler's list" is not evidence any more than "Requiem for a dream". They are movies.

If I wanted to convince someone that the Nazis were bad, I would not tell them to watch "Schindler's list", I would tell them to look at historical data of what actually happened.

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LKL
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03 Jun 2013, 1:21 pm

Dox47 wrote:

LKL wrote:

I don't think such things should be banned, but voluntarily participating in something like that - where you *know* that you're going to be hurt, as opposed to something like bungee jumping that's merely dangerous, but not automatically damaging - strides close to the line of a 5150.

I wouldn't characterize it that way, I mean you're going to experience pain in any number of sports, but injury is not a certainty, even in boxing or MMA. I think you actually see more long term injuries in football, but that doesn't get stigmatized the way the sparring type sports do.

I don't watch football, either. I can imagine the player's brain cells being squashed against their skulls too vividly each time one of them takes a hit.

LKL
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03 Jun 2013, 1:25 pm

GGPViper wrote:

Seeing some of the comments so far in this thread, I figured I might just post a link to this recent study:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hom ... aged-goods

From the abstract:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23167939

"The damaged goods hypothesis posits that female performers in the adult entertainment industry have higher rates of childhood sexual abuse (CSA), psychological problems, and drug use compared to the typical woman. The present study compared the self-reports of 177 porn actresses to a sample of women matched on age, ethnicity, and marital status. Comparisons were conducted on sexual behaviors and attitudes, self-esteem, quality of life, and drug use. Porn actresses were more likely to identify as bisexual, first had sex at an earlier age, had more sexual partners, were more concerned about contracting a sexually transmitted disease (STD), and enjoyed sex more than the matched sample, although there were no differences in incidence of CSA. In terms of psychological characteristics, porn actresses had higher levels of self-esteem, positive feelings, social support, sexual satisfaction, and spirituality compared to the matched group. Last, female performers were more likely to have ever used 10 different types of drugs compared to the comparison group. A discriminant function analysis was able to correctly classify 83% of the participants concerning whether they were a porn actress or member of the matched sample. These findings did not provide support for the damaged goods hypothesis."

1)drug use is higher amongst the actresses, according to this abstract.
2)Matching for marital status, as opposed to looking at the population as a whole, distorts the results.

GGPViper
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03 Jun 2013, 2:24 pm

LKL wrote:

GGPViper wrote:

Seeing some of the comments so far in this thread, I figured I might just post a link to this recent study:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hom ... aged-goods

From the abstract:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23167939

"The damaged goods hypothesis posits that female performers in the adult entertainment industry have higher rates of childhood sexual abuse (CSA), psychological problems, and drug use compared to the typical woman. The present study compared the self-reports of 177 porn actresses to a sample of women matched on age, ethnicity, and marital status. Comparisons were conducted on sexual behaviors and attitudes, self-esteem, quality of life, and drug use. Porn actresses were more likely to identify as bisexual, first had sex at an earlier age, had more sexual partners, were more concerned about contracting a sexually transmitted disease (STD), and enjoyed sex more than the matched sample, although there were no differences in incidence of CSA. In terms of psychological characteristics, porn actresses had higher levels of self-esteem, positive feelings, social support, sexual satisfaction, and spirituality compared to the matched group. Last, female performers were more likely to have ever used 10 different types of drugs compared to the comparison group. A discriminant function analysis was able to correctly classify 83% of the participants concerning whether they were a porn actress or member of the matched sample. These findings did not provide support for the damaged goods hypothesis."

1)drug use is higher amongst the actresses, according to this abstract.

[cough]cherry-picking[end of cough]

You forgot the higher levels of self-esteem, positive feelings, social support, sexual satisfaction and spirituality... (although I don't know what to make of the latter).

LKL wrote:

2)Matching for marital status, as opposed to looking at the population as a whole, distorts the results.

Are you saying that the use of matching samples is an invalid statistical technique?

Dox47
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03 Jun 2013, 2:30 pm

LKL wrote:

1)drug use is higher amongst the actresses, according to this abstract.

And? I work in food service, and drug and alcohol use is extremely high, much higher than in other fields I've worked in. We don't drink and do drugs because we're damaged people, we do it because we work high stress jobs that take a lot out of us, and blowing off steam after work is pretty traditional. In the porn business, partying hard is just part of the culture of the industry, not necessarily a sign of something sinister going on,

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abacacus
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03 Jun 2013, 2:50 pm

Schneekugel wrote:

abacacus wrote:

nessa238 wrote:

In my opinion there's no point debating this issue with people who like porn, as the very fact that a person likes watching porn indicates a course, insensitive attitude to life in general, hence you are not going to relate to the nuances of the argument or care about what happens to the people involved.

All I would say is that people ought to watch the film 'Requiem for a Dream', which depicts the often brutal reality for people involved in the porn and sex industries. If you can watch the last scene of that film and not feel sickened then there's no hope for you in my opinion as it's designed to be shocking and I would put money on all the porn-watchers not batting an eyelid at it as their sensibilities will have been hardened.

And you demonstrate a tendency to be judgmental, uncaring, and rather daft with that first statement. What's life like in black and white?

Shocker films are just that- shocker films. Back away from fiction and bring some reality in here.

Cool. Would you dare to say that in front of an cinema audience after seeing "Schindlers list".

"Yeah, I know its based on reality and it really happened. But that right now was just a film based on it, so the people we saw right now dying and getting shotted, were only actots, so no need to feel bad for the real person behind that film, because the film itself is only a fake." If there will ever be a 9/11 cinemafilm, I am willing to bet about 10.000 USD with you, that if I would say that nonsense to the audience, after the end of the film, that I need police support. "Oh its based on reality... but its only a film. So the actors you saw flying down 250 meters until their brain was splashed had parashoots! So come down!" ^^

Uh, yeah, I would say the same thing. A fictional film is not worked getting worked up over. I'll save that for things that happen in reality.

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Jono
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03 Jun 2013, 3:23 pm

puddingmouse wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

Watch this video before you make up your mind.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRZZAuPyG7I[/youtube]

I think I'll stick to amateur stuff after watching that. The porn industry sucks (sorry for the unfunny pun.)

Shelley Lubben is not completely truthful. There are a number of porn stars who have actually disputed what she says, as well as saying that they like being in the industry.

puddingmouse
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03 Jun 2013, 3:30 pm

I think I'll choose to take them at their word, just in case. I won't try to get the industry shut down - but the fact that there is probably some truth in what she says is enough to put me off 'professional' porn.

Some people become vegetarian after watching those videos about how animals are killed. They know it's sensationalised (if they have enough critical faculties) but they are still disturbed by there being a grain of truth in it all. This is sort of similar. I'm not telling other people to give up professional porn, but I will try to.

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thomas81
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03 Jun 2013, 3:57 pm

Jono wrote:

Shelley Lubben is not completely truthful. There are a number of porn stars who have actually disputed what she says, as well as saying that they like being in the industry.

No doubt, you mean the vast vast minority of ones who have done extremely well out of it so are quick to defend the institution as it stands. I'm aware, as is Shelly Lubben that there is a minor elite clique of female porn stars who live like minor celebrities, the point is the conditions of the women who never make it to that stage; that the public face of the industry is a facade; merely a tip of glamour concealing a iceberg of degradation, violence, co-erced rape, abuse and exploitation. The ones who do well are being used as bait to lure naive, disadvantaged girls in hook line and sinker.

I do not know the figures for women, but i remember watching a documentary about porn that said that as few as fifty men in America make a living as full time, professional porn stars. If you're a man at least you have probably more chance of becoming an astronaut than becoming a professional porn star that makes an income worth quitting the day job at mcdonalds or walmart.

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Last edited by thomas81 on 03 Jun 2013, 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thomas81
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03 Jun 2013, 4:05 pm

@puddingmouse

Do you think the industry would improve if more women took over the role of pornographers?

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03 Jun 2013, 4:25 pm

@puddingmouse

you're the exact opposite of a cute innocent mouse :roll:

thomas81
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03 Jun 2013, 4:34 pm

I wish my significant other was a porn fan

Mr puddingmouse is a very lucky man.

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