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The US Government Shut-Down - Whom to Blame

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eric76
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03 Oct 2013, 12:39 am

simon_says wrote:
The whole south flipped. Not exactly new information. The party of Lincoln became the party of southern resentment toward the federal government.


Yep. And taking that into consideration, anyone who believes that the Republicans have been the primary beneficiaries of gerrymandering in the south is either delusional or ignorant. The Democrats had far more time in power to do that sort of thing and they did just that time and time again.



LKL
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03 Oct 2013, 12:40 am

eric76 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
No, he doesn't. The Republicans are acting like spoiled, vindictive children in this matter. They had lost the election, but still strive to make this president's legacy a failure. That's what destroying Obamacare is really all about, and thus the government shutdown, too.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

You do realize, don't you, that the Republicans won quite a number of Congressional races. Are you suggesting that our elected representatives should forget about their principles and vote for whatever the President says?
When George Bush was President, were you of the opinion that the Democrats in Congress who opposed him and his plans should have just done whatever he wanted them to do?
Or does that only apply to Republicans when a Democrat was elected President and not to Democrats when a Republican is elected President?

You do realize, don't you, that the congressional districts were so profoundly gerrymandered (largely by Republicans) after the last census that most congresspeople only face challenges from the extreme wings of their parties? They could molest a child on public TV and still not be voted out in the general election.

As far as, 'Dems do it too,' goes, when was the last time the Dems held the country hostage to get their way? While you're at it, why don't you look up the historical use and frequency of the filibuster?



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03 Oct 2013, 12:43 am

eric76 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Needless to say, it to a while for all white southerners to forget that the Republicans had been their Civil War enemies.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The Republicans certainly didn't treat the citizens in the southern states at all well after the civil war. I was extremely surprised when Clements was elected governor. I swore up and down before the elections that Texans would never vote for another Republican for Governor.

We went over 100 years with the Democrats having solid control of the state.

What happened wasn't that Texas moved away from the Democratic Party but that the Democratic Party moved away from Texas.

Go read the platform that Eisenhower ran on and then come back to us.



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03 Oct 2013, 12:46 am

eric76 wrote:
simon_says wrote:
The whole south flipped. Not exactly new information. The party of Lincoln became the party of southern resentment toward the federal government.


Yep. And taking that into consideration, anyone who believes that the Republicans have been the primary beneficiaries of gerrymandering in the south is either delusional or ignorant. The Democrats had far more time in power to do that sort of thing and they did just that time and time again.


They don't need to gerrymander in the South. Its in non-Southern states that they are being problematic


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03 Oct 2013, 1:03 am

The purple states that swung for Obama.



Kraichgauer
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03 Oct 2013, 1:26 am

eric76 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Needless to say, it to a while for all white southerners to forget that the Republicans had been their Civil War enemies.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The Republicans certainly didn't treat the citizens in the southern states at all well after the civil war. I was extremely surprised when Clements was elected governor. I swore up and down before the elections that Texans would never vote for another Republican for Governor.

We went over 100 years with the Democrats having solid control of the state.

What happened wasn't that Texas moved away from the Democratic Party but that the Democratic Party moved away from Texas.


That can argued to be a matter of opinion, considering that newly freed blacks certainly had had their rights insured during Reconstruction (and lost after). On top of that, there were always white southerners who had fought for the Union, and who cooperated with the Northern victors.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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03 Oct 2013, 1:40 am

auntblabby wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Dox doesn't care about these 'peripheral' issues. What matters is who unflinchingly supports the rights of paranoid hobbyists and their toys. All other issues are unimportant and unworthy of attention. In fact, you're arrogant just for suggesting such!

yes, you are right. :hmph:


You know, it's bad enough when people you've been talking to online for years just outright lie about you because they're feeling petulant, but when it really stings is when people you know in real life believe them. :cry:


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03 Oct 2013, 1:45 am

Dox47 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Dox doesn't care about these 'peripheral' issues. What matters is who unflinchingly supports the rights of paranoid hobbyists and their toys. All other issues are unimportant and unworthy of attention. In fact, you're arrogant just for suggesting such!

yes, you are right. :hmph:


You know, it's bad enough when people you've been talking to online for years just outright lie about you because they're feeling petulant, but when it really stings is when people you know in real life believe them. :cry:

Image
let's just say that times like these are just one big ball of confusion, eh? I have nothing against your guns or those of anybody you know. but I do take it personally when I am getting my leg peed on and then told it's only raining. let us just agree we each have our hot buttons and leave it at that.



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03 Oct 2013, 2:50 am

auntblabby wrote:
let's just say that times like these are just one big ball of confusion, eh? I have nothing against your guns or those of anybody you know. but I do take it personally when I am getting my leg peed on and then told it's only raining. let us just agree we each have our hot buttons and leave it at that.


I appreciate that Blabbs, but what I'm upset about is that guns have nothing to do with this, nothing to do with my feelings about the law, and nothing to do with the argument that you and I have been having about understanding everyone's point of view. Vigilans brought them up to try and paint me as this single issue paranoid extremist despite knowing better, and you went along with him. I'm insulted but not surprised at this point to get that from him, I'm just hurt that you'd so readily see me that way.


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03 Oct 2013, 3:58 am

The only one to blame for this is the state... for existing...



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03 Oct 2013, 6:31 am

I imagine now the CIA and NSA are unable to work. Al Qaeda will be sending a thank you note to the Republicans.



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03 Oct 2013, 7:02 am

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visagrunt
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03 Oct 2013, 11:49 am

cyberdad wrote:
I imagine now the CIA and NSA are unable to work. Al Qaeda will be sending a thank you note to the Republicans.


I think you'll find that large components of those agencies are deemed essential.


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eric76
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03 Oct 2013, 12:04 pm

visagrunt wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I imagine now the CIA and NSA are unable to work. Al Qaeda will be sending a thank you note to the Republicans.


I think you'll find that large components of those agencies are deemed essential.


For those agencies that aren't essential, why can't we just close them down and save money?



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03 Oct 2013, 12:14 pm

eric76 wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I imagine now the CIA and NSA are unable to work. Al Qaeda will be sending a thank you note to the Republicans.


I think you'll find that large components of those agencies are deemed essential.


For those agencies that aren't essential, why can't we just close them down and save money?


But what is essential or non-essential? Plenty of Republicans would say the WIC program is not essential, as it has been (hopefully) temporarily closed down. But tell that pregnant women, or mothers with young children who will go without proper nutrition. Funny that the Republican party, that's so pro-life regarding abortion, sees no problem with jeopardizing the health of expecting mothers and babies.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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03 Oct 2013, 12:22 pm

Cyanide wrote:
The only one to blame for this is the state... for existing...


I suspect you'd miss the state terribly once it's gone. Who is going to protect you from foreign invasion? Or build freeways that actually go somewhere? Or keeps industry from adding weight to products with broken glass, or won't wash off animal feces from meat?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer