AZ SB 1062 discrimination against LGBT

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Kraichgauer
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27 Feb 2014, 1:31 am

luanqibazao wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

belief that people are entitled to discriminate against clients who don;t meet their ideals of what a human being should be...

I used to do handyman work, fixing people's cars and washing machines for a little extra cash. (People of modest means, of course, because if you can afford a certified technician you don't hire Joe Shadetree.) If I start doing that again, I could list a half-dozen people I would happily help for free, or for some garden vegetables or something, because they're friends and I like them. And there are two I can think of, in the neighborhood, whom I would not work for at any price, because they're as*holes. Guess I'd better prepare for lawsuits ... as*holes are clearly a protected minority now ....

Not servicing people because they're as*holes is one thing, but doing it because of race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. is quite another.

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Ann2011
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27 Feb 2014, 1:32 am

Dox47 wrote:

Ann2011 wrote:

No . . . any system is only as good as it's weakest link. But, when working properly, the government should provide an orderly forum for the voicing of varying opinions and allow for rules etc to be decided upon by the majority of an equally represented people.

And when that majority decides that it really doesn't like a certain minority, and perhaps they should pass some laws repressing them?

Could happen.
That's why this veto was such a good thing.

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luanqibazao
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27 Feb 2014, 1:38 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Not servicing people because they're as*holes is one thing, but doing it because of race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. is quite another.

Aha, problem solved! The various bakers, barbers, etc. just need to practice saying, "I can't serve you – not because of your race, religion, or sexual orientation, but because you're an as*hole." I knew if we worked together we'd find a solution!

luanqibazao
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27 Feb 2014, 1:43 am

(Good Lord, what made the autocensor kick in now??) :scratch:

Kraichgauer
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27 Feb 2014, 1:45 am

luanqibazao wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Not servicing people because they're as*holes is one thing, but doing it because of race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. is quite another.

I knew we eventually would! :lol:

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Sweetleaf
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27 Feb 2014, 2:10 am

luanqibazao wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Not servicing people because they're as*holes is one thing, but doing it because of race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. is quite another.

Being an as*hole could be construed as harassing behavior which businesses can refuse service for. For instance if you try and get on a bus where I live and act like a complete ass, there is a good chance you'll be asked to get off the bus and if you don't they can call the cops.

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Dox47
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27 Feb 2014, 5:25 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

I have no interest in chasing down the accidental misuse of a contraction or whatever I did.
Are you becoming a grammar Nazi now?

*Sigh*

Seriously, this is embarrassing.

I said: "It's not the standing by your beliefs part that is problematic, it's the way you'd go about enforcing them on others, often in ways that you'd be the first to scream about if they were used to impose the morality of others upon you."

You replied: "Who says I'm enforcing my beliefs on anyone?"

Do you see the problem now? I didn't say you were forcing your beliefs on people, but you responded as if I did, i.e. you rebutted something I didn't actually say, what some people might call fighting a straw man.

Grammar Nazism generally entails nitpicking on someone's misuse of grammar to try and make them look unintelligent (though it usually only makes the Nazi look like a pedant), this is you responding to things I did not write, an entirely different category.

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Dox47
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27 Feb 2014, 5:38 am

luanqibazao wrote:

(Good Lord, what made the autocensor kick in now??) :scratch:

It's quirky with plurals, as*hole gets censored but as*holes is apparently ok.

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cyberdad
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27 Feb 2014, 6:26 am

Dox47 wrote:

I suppose it would seem like "cover" to someone for whom the whole concept was foreign, the kind of person who'd say something like 'critical thinking isn't necessary once the government has spoken'.

So what are you? an outlaw? you aren't going to tell me you ignore government are you? you live under the same system as me, so whether you want to think critically of government regulations or not you accept the laws and regs because you "choose" to live under that system.

sonofghandi
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27 Feb 2014, 7:52 am

luanqibazao wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Well, as disgusting as the Klan are, they ought to still be given equal access and treatment under the law. I hate to concede this point, but that KKK douche bag deserved to win - - but I'm sure he also deserves to be punched in the testicles till he loses consciousness.

I'll give you this, you're consistent. Suppose there were a bakery owned by a Holocaust survivor. Would you force him to make a cake with swastikas on it, if that's what a neo-Nazi customer wanted?

If the bakery provided swastikas on cakes, then the bakery would not be able to deny a neo-nazi from ordering one. Since I imagine this theoretical bakery does not make cakes covered in swastikas, you cannot force them to provide a product or service they don't offer.

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luanqibazao
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27 Feb 2014, 11:53 am

sonofghandi wrote:

Theoretical Bakery makes custom cakes – that's what they offer.

Customer A wants a cake decorated with pink flowers and "Happy Birthday Buffy" – no problem.
Customer B wants a Christian cross and "Happy Retirement Father Flanagan" – they'll shrug and do it, even though they're Jewish.
Customer C wants swastikas and "Heil Hitler" ....

I say they have the right to tell Customer C to find another bakery. Being a Nazi or a Klansman is not an inborn condition, it is willfully choosing to be an as*hole, and social ostracism is a logical consequence. Just as I will decline to work for the guy who I know has a history of beating up women, even though he's always polite to me.

Sweetleaf
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27 Feb 2014, 12:06 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Ann2011 wrote:

And when that majority decides that it really doesn't like a certain minority, and perhaps they should pass some laws repressing them?

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Kraichgauer
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27 Feb 2014, 1:16 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I have no interest in chasing down the accidental misuse of a contraction or whatever I did.
Are you becoming a grammar Nazi now?

Okay, okay, I apologize - I thought you were pointing out some sort of F up I had made in a previous post. My only defense is, the obvious is sometimes not that obvious to us Aspies. :oops:

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Cornflake
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27 Feb 2014, 5:08 pm

A rather neat reality check on the knuckle-dragging bigotry behind this pernicious nonsense, happily now vetoed.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvYYU7ECM_k[/youtube]

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Kraichgauer
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27 Feb 2014, 6:29 pm

The pizza man Herman Cain, in a tweet after this interview, described it as a "rant" by Anderson Cooper, and that Cooper didn't understand either the constitution, or the "teachings of Jesus Christ." :roll:
Geez, imagine if that pizza making simpleton had ever made it to the White House?!?!?!?!

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27 Feb 2014, 7:12 pm

It's profoundly disturbing that people like Al Melvin reach the positions they hold with the opinions they espouse: a vile, festering hatred that blinds him to the obvious contradictions between SB 1062 and what he disgustingly refers to as "Christianity" - which in his mouth becomes a blackened, twisted corruption.

I doubt that Cain would be quite so glib with this one (from 2012 and unrelated to SB 1062; just more horse poo from the same stable):

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B70Msi7vrmE&sf[/youtube]

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