People first, God second. Should people put themselves above

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Kraichgauer
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05 Nov 2016, 7:08 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

[

My faith is my own, not the property of those who had long ago misused it. And more, my faith, I believe as a Lutheran, is a gift given to me by God.

So you think it moral to accept a gift from your genocidal son murdering God, even though he has to murder an innocent man to give you that salvific gift.

Satan likes that trait in immoral Christians.

Regards
DL

So, all you've got is personal attacks on people's faith?

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GnosticBishop
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05 Nov 2016, 7:23 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

[

My faith is my own, not the property of those who had long ago misused it. And more, my faith, I believe as a Lutheran, is a gift given to me by God.

So, all you've got is personal attacks on people's faith?

Your faith means nothing to me and it is your immoral thinking I am speaking to.

I see that you did not refute the statement I put as you know it is the truth.

But if morality is not your focus and reason for being in your religion in the first places then shame on you.

As Ingersoll said; 'no man would be fit for heaven who would consent that an innocent person should suffer for his sin.'

Regards
DL

adifferentname
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05 Nov 2016, 9:21 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

[

My faith is my own, not the property of those who had long ago misused it. And more, my faith, I believe as a Lutheran, is a gift given to me by God.

So, all you've got is personal attacks on people's faith?

Ideologies are fair game. That was a perfectly legitimate criticism of yours, not to mention a logically consistent one within the framework of Christianity.

Kraichgauer
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05 Nov 2016, 11:35 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

[

My faith is my own, not the property of those who had long ago misused it. And more, my faith, I believe as a Lutheran, is a gift given to me by God.

So, all you've got is personal attacks on people's faith?

I have been refuting your arguments this whole thread, but all you seem content to do is make personal attacks on my so called immoral faith.
And just because Ingersoll says something hardly makes it the truth. I like Bill Maher, but I'm hardly going to slavishly follow everything he says.

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Kraichgauer
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05 Nov 2016, 11:50 pm

adifferentname wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

[

My faith is my own, not the property of those who had long ago misused it. And more, my faith, I believe as a Lutheran, is a gift given to me by God.

So, all you've got is personal attacks on people's faith?

Ideologies are fair game. That was a perfectly legitimate criticism of yours, not to mention a logically consistent one within the framework of Christianity.

But personal attacks are not. Calling me immoral for my faith is a personal attack.

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adifferentname
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06 Nov 2016, 6:45 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

adifferentname wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

[

My faith is my own, not the property of those who had long ago misused it. And more, my faith, I believe as a Lutheran, is a gift given to me by God.

So, all you've got is personal attacks on people's faith?

Ideologies are fair game. That was a perfectly legitimate criticism of yours, not to mention a logically consistent one within the framework of Christianity.

But personal attacks are not. Calling me immoral for my faith is a personal attack.

He implied that all Christians are immoral because they support a genocidal, infanticidal deity. There's a world of difference.

Kraichgauer
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06 Nov 2016, 11:24 am

adifferentname wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

adifferentname wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

[

My faith is my own, not the property of those who had long ago misused it. And more, my faith, I believe as a Lutheran, is a gift given to me by God.

So, all you've got is personal attacks on people's faith?

Ideologies are fair game. That was a perfectly legitimate criticism of yours, not to mention a logically consistent one within the framework of Christianity.

But personal attacks are not. Calling me immoral for my faith is a personal attack.

He implied that all Christians are immoral because they support a genocidal, infanticidal deity. There's a world of difference.

"[I]t is your immoral thinking I am speaking to" is what the snake said. He was talking about me personally.

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GnosticBishop
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06 Nov 2016, 11:49 am

adifferentname wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

[

My faith is my own, not the property of those who had long ago misused it. And more, my faith, I believe as a Lutheran, is a gift given to me by God.

So, all you've got is personal attacks on people's faith?

Ideologies are fair game. That was a perfectly legitimate criticism of yours, not to mention a logically consistent one within the framework of Christianity.

Exactly.
Always nice to see a thinking mind.

Which shows our friend not even following the Golden Rule that Jesus preached.

Regards
DL

GnosticBishop
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06 Nov 2016, 11:54 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

[

My faith is my own, not the property of those who had long ago misused it. And more, my faith, I believe as a Lutheran, is a gift given to me by God.

So, all you've got is personal attacks on people's faith?

You have not refuted anything.

Show how it is any kind of justice for you to profit from the punishment of the innocent instead of the guilty.

Refute this simple statement.

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

If you think it is moral, as you seem to believe, then show how it is.

Show how it is morally and legally good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty, bearing in mind that all legal systems think that punishing the guilty is what is justice.

Regards
DL

adifferentname
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06 Nov 2016, 12:04 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

adifferentname wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

adifferentname wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

[

My faith is my own, not the property of those who had long ago misused it. And more, my faith, I believe as a Lutheran, is a gift given to me by God.

So, all you've got is personal attacks on people's faith?

Ideologies are fair game. That was a perfectly legitimate criticism of yours, not to mention a logically consistent one within the framework of Christianity.

But personal attacks are not. Calling me immoral for my faith is a personal attack.

He implied that all Christians are immoral because they support a genocidal, infanticidal deity. There's a world of difference.

"it is your immoral thinking I am speaking to" is what the snake said. He was talking about me personally.

Hardly. I'll break it down for you.

This is him addressing the opinion you espoused, proffering his interpretation of it:

"So you think it moral to accept a gift from your genocidal son murdering God, even though he has to murder an innocent man to give you that salvific gift."

Whereas this is very clearly an opinion of any follower of the Christian ideology who fits his interpretation:

"Satan likes that trait in immoral Christians."

If you wish to argue against the suggestion that the character "God" in the bible is a genocidal killer of babies, by all means do so.

friedmacguffins
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06 Nov 2016, 3:11 pm

The line of discussion can be extended, into giving charity to moral reprobates and cynics.

Biblically speaking, valuable testimonials have been given, in the form of oil of spikenard, a rich man's tomb, and cedarwood for the temple.

But, the institution of the church would have been run, much along the lines of household, which did provide charity -- conditionally.

For instance, women of a certain age would not be considered widows, but expected to find financial support in marriage.

So (conditional) charity and testimonials are both considered legitimate.

drlaugh
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06 Nov 2016, 3:20 pm

I share my testimony of my test in life.

I also choose to help people. That's more off line than in forums online.
It might be at home,work,church , homeless shelters or playing harmonica while shopping at Walmart.

I have learned much from the physically and spiritually blind.
In the past I have been both.

Me - Still too old to know it all

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GnosticBishop
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06 Nov 2016, 6:34 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:

Quote:

The line of discussion can be extended, into giving charity to moral reprobates and cynics.

That might be better than giving to priests, preachers and imams that spend all day lying to people about Gods they say they cannot know.

Quote:

Biblically speaking, valuable testimonials have been given, in the form of oil of spikenard, a rich man's tomb, and cedarwood for the temple.

But, the institution of the church would have been run, much along the lines of household, which did provide charity -- conditionally.

That would be much closer to what Jesus taught of closeting ones self when one prays so as not to look like the hypocrites he saw in the temples.

I do not understand your first have been forced to ignored it.

Quote:

For instance, women of a certain age would not be considered widows, but expected to find financial support in marriage.

So (conditional) charity and testimonials are both considered legitimate.

Hmm. I though a widow was just a previously married woman who had lost her husband.

Age had nothing to do with widowhood. Just the loss of a husband.

I am not sure how you are using the word testimonial here and if biblical, they may have some importance, to foolish literalists but to an intelligent mind, they will be seen as fiction.

Perhaps important fiction but fiction nonetheless.

Regards
DL

Kraichgauer
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06 Nov 2016, 7:46 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

[

My faith is my own, not the property of those who had long ago misused it. And more, my faith, I believe as a Lutheran, is a gift given to me by God.

So, all you've got is personal attacks on people's faith?

That's only because you've kept your fingers plugged in your ears all this time. If you don't like my responses, don't engage me.

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GnosticBishop
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07 Nov 2016, 5:41 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

That's only because you've kept your fingers plugged in your ears all this time. If you don't like my responses, don't engage me.

Your response shows that you cannot defend your position and that is good enough for me.

You have show us all that you are not fit for heaven.

Regards
DL

Kraichgauer
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07 Nov 2016, 6:20 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

That's only because you've kept your fingers plugged in your ears all this time. If you don't like my responses, don't engage me.

Your response shows that you cannot defend your position and that is good enough for me.

You have show us all that you are not fit for heaven.

Regards
DL

No, I'm not fit for heaven; my salvation depends on God's grace, earned for me by Christ. Just what the hell are you depending on, other than running down the faith of others?

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