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Sand
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02 Jun 2008, 7:41 am

Since there have been several clear opportunities to capture bin Laden it seems most likely that he is much more valuable to the Bush propaganda for war uncaptured.



slowmutant
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02 Jun 2008, 10:08 am

The_Chosen_One wrote:
I never haver have supported troops going to tin-pot wars because of some misguided leaders' obsession with subjugating those so called enemies into their way of thinking. Two prime examples of this are Vietnam and Iraq. The 'police action' which dragged us into Vietnam in the 60s was a direct result of the leadership of America trying to stop a so called threat of communism (they thought Kruschev was behind it, but it was China. Meanwhile the Sth Vietnamese were no darlings either, and what happened after all that time? the North won. Wasted a lot of lives in the process, and everyone ended up hating those that went. Iraq on the other hand was the legacy of a failed attempt by Junior's old man to get rid of Hussein (whom the Yanks had been aiding for years before anyway). So the actual war lasts roughly a month, the Iraquis themselves finally get off their collectives and take control, Saddam s**ts himself and goes underground and it turns out that the insurgents don't want you there anyway. Meanwhile, our guys are never given any front line dury, just overlook jobs or "Dad's Army" type tasks. Good enough to be called up, but not good enough ;for the real work. Oh, and why haven't you gotten Bin Laden yet? Answer is simple; he is either dead and those tapes are old, or he is so much smarter and is laughing at Bush etc from some deep dark cave somewhere. My guess is that by the type he is found, both answers will be true.


Maybe you should ship out to Fallujah and start searching for bin Laden yourself. Go to Iraq and get shot at. You think you know more about armed conflict than the men and women out there defending your sorry butt? What do you contibute to this whole mess, besides whining and criticizing from you armchair?

Coward and ingrate.



The_Chosen_One
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02 Jun 2008, 10:12 am

slow mutant by name, slow mutant by nature. I calls 'em as I sees 'em and your lot seem to leave a lot to be desired.

Besides, why should I go to some armpit to defend some ignorant prats and get killed in the meantime? Morons like you do perfectly well on your own without any contribution from me.


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Kilroy
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02 Jun 2008, 10:20 am

Orwell wrote:
Canada's not a third world country. They actually are quite prosperous. The Canadian dollar is currently more valuable than the American.

Have you studied economics at the college level? I personally am no fan of Keynesianism, and the government may be introducing money into the economy with military expenditures, but that is (at least if we had a responsible government) generally money that the government had taken out of the economy through taxation. Had they left it alone, it could have employed people more efficiently. Really, you're advocating the redistribution of wealth from society at large to arms dealers.

OK, I'm fine with having a strong standing army ready to go as a contingency. Don't know why we have to protect all these other countries though, shouldn't we at least get something in return? Maybe a throwback to old international relations in terms of a tributary state... we protect them militarily, they give us the better side of trade agreements, or something along those lines.

We seem to have rather different perspectives on the prospect of military service. I personally was not terribly upset to hear that the military would probably reject me for my autism, especially given the occasional rumours of a draft. I personally must say I am not well-suited to military service, and besides would not be willing enough to obey orders without question.

No, it doesn't disqualify one from respect (I stated this even in my OP to some extent) but it doesn't automatically entitle one to it either. At least, not to any greater extent than all humans deserve some degree of respect.

yeah canada is actually very prosperious and good to live in



The_Chosen_One
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02 Jun 2008, 10:21 am

And they are still part of the Commonwealth.


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Kilroy
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02 Jun 2008, 10:22 am

yeah but that doesn't really do anything in our day to day lives :lol:



slowmutant
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02 Jun 2008, 11:11 am

The_Chosen_One wrote:
And they are still part of the Commonwealth.


Yes and no. We have the Queen on our money, and still have some allegeance to the Crown, but we are sovereign and have been for decades. We're not completely removed from Britain, but definitely more than a colony. It's kind a sentimental thing, being a Commonwealth nation.



The_Chosen_One
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02 Jun 2008, 6:35 pm

And it means you get to play the Commonwealth games with the rest of us.


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slowmutant
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02 Jun 2008, 6:49 pm

Orwell wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Orwell wrote:
Sorry, I don't know about Westboro Baptist, so your allusion went right past me. Anyways, I tend not to get along too well with fundies, which I'm guessing Westboro would be.

But anyways, please elaborate on how I would fit in there. :roll:



westboro protests soldiers' funerals implying their death was a result of god hating gays.

I'm fine with gay marriage and whatnot. And I'm not one to make a mockery of anyone mourning for a loved one. That's just sick. I'm still not quite sure where the connection's being made... I'm pretty tolerant of other people's views. I'm Protestant, but I have friends who are Mormon, Catholic, Muslim, Jewish, atheist, etc.


Tolerant of others' views? How? You haven't been bullied enough, Orwell. Get back out there.



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02 Jun 2008, 7:13 pm

Canada is not an empire. We can barely play Commonwealth games with our own people. Every hear of Quebec Separatism?



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02 Jun 2008, 9:09 pm

slowmutant wrote:
Tolerant of others' views? How? You haven't been bullied enough, Orwell. Get back out there.

:huh: What are you talking about?


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02 Jun 2008, 11:30 pm

Orwell wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
Tolerant of others' views? How? You haven't been bullied enough, Orwell. Get back out there.

:huh: What are you talking about?


:cheers:

I'm not the only one confused !



slowmutant
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03 Jun 2008, 7:57 am

Orwell, you claim to have friends of all these different religious backgrounds and you claim you tolerate their different points of view? Jews, Muslims, Christians, etc. Do they all agree with you about not supporting the troop just for spite? I dunno, maybe you have found an cross-sectional assortment of people who hate what you hate because you hate it.



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03 Jun 2008, 8:38 am

slowmutant wrote:
Orwell, you claim to have friends of all these different religious backgrounds and you claim you tolerate their different points of view? Jews, Muslims, Christians, etc. Do they all agree with you about not supporting the troop just for spite? I dunno, maybe you have found an cross-sectional assortment of people who hate what you hate because you hate it.

You're rather putting words in my mouth. Not supporting the troops just for "spite?" No, not at all. And I don't "hate" them, there are very few things which I can say I actively hate. You're also assuming that I have to agree with someone's views to be tolerant of them. That's kind of the opposite of tolerance. And I have friends with a variety of political views as well, from libertarian to populist as well as typical liberals and conservatives. My comment about tolerating different views was in reply to someone comparing me to Westboro Baptist Church. I was pointing out that this was inaccurate; I don't hate people because of their sexual orientation or religion.


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03 Jun 2008, 9:16 am

Right. I think I understand.



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03 Jun 2008, 12:13 pm

slowmutant wrote:
Ever hear of Quebec Separatism?


Vive le Québec libre!