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New Arizona Law called "fundamentally racist."

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Master_Pedant
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14 May 2010, 5:27 pm

If the US would stop dumping subsidized corn on the Mexican market much of the problem would be solved.

The most militarized border in the world is not impermeable - people crossed the Berlin Wall.



makuranososhi
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14 May 2010, 5:56 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Regardless of how I may personally feel about this law (perhaps understandable, but misguided), I find the general lack of civility in this thread disconcerting to say the least. Posters on both sides of this seem to be taking things way too personally, paging through this thread it reads more like warring religious factions calling each other heretics than a reasoned political debate. On the more practical side, I've yet to see anyone persuaded to change their opinion by being called a traitor, a racist or a fascist, so tossing such invective into the mix is not only crude hyperbole at best, but downright counterproductive to the goals of everyone.


I would tend to agree, Dox. While I may consider the bill being discussed as having aspects of some of those negative qualities you listed, I strive to clear differentiate between my opinions on the idea and the person speaking it. I don't believe anyone has suggested that there is no problem - defining what the problem is, how it is caused, and how to best address it within the scope and confines of the law is where the challenge truly arises.


M.


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14 May 2010, 7:01 pm

visagrunt wrote:
If you are prepared to siphon something in the vicinity of $200bn (yes, billion) out of your national economy, then by all means do so.

Just goes to show that good politics is, in this case, stupid public policy.

I'm not worried about possibly losing $200B from the economy. We have enough documented immigrants and enough unemployed citizens to cover the jobs. We will save ourselves some money on social services as well.


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14 May 2010, 7:09 pm

Worldtraveler wrote:
Tell that to the criminals that assulted be last Mayday and the police that refused to go after them.

Therefore people who are against the proposed law are "moronic libs".
Interesting logic.

Ok then, call me a moronic lib if you like, I am so proud of being a "moronic lib".


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14 May 2010, 10:24 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAqOyAWHM1A[/youtube]

What a hypocrite. Has anyone seen what Mexico does on their southern borders? Virtually every nation in the world requires some sort of legal documentation to get into their country.

"Focus on criminalizing migration in this way"

Because it is criminal! If you enter this country without paperwork it is illegal.

"which is a social and economic phenomenon"

It is an economic phenomenon for Mexico because they can literally export all their poverty to our country. I'd imagine most of the people entering illegally aren't even Mexicans. They're mostly from South America nations that Mexico doesn't want to deal with or even have them in their country. I'm not making this up. I knew a legal resident from Mexico who once told me this is exactly what the Mexican government is hoping illegal immigration leads to. He also said there's still pent up anger over losing Texas and California. He says as far as the Mexican government and people are concerned the land still belongs to Mexico. Obviously they can't take them by force but they can own them by "seeding and breeding." I'm sure you don't need me to explain what that means.

"Stepping up efforts to protect the rights of Mexicans."

Why don't you start by accepting responsibility for your nation, and acknowledge that you've let your people down... not the United States. And also start taking care of your citizens so they have a reason to want to stay in your country?

Why is everyone criminalizing the United States for wanting to defend our southern border states? As a sovereign nation we are slowly being invaded. We don't want a European Union style visa program that allows people to freely travel across our borders. We already have something like that: we call them the States. The UNITED States of America.


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15 May 2010, 6:44 am

Oh, Mexico never should have ceded Arizona and California to the United States in the first place.

This is all Mexico's fault.

All that Mexico succeeded in doing was to create one big headache.



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16 May 2010, 1:23 pm

A note to everyone.

Maku , a moderator is useing the rules and his/her power to shut up people that maku does not like.
Here is the threat and defamation maku sent me.

"Attacks on individuals or groups on WP will not be tolerated; neither will racist speech. If you need to speak such things, there are other venues available to you or you can even create your own. But it won't be accepted here.


M.

I have not attacked maku personally, I know nothing about maku, and I have used no racists words.
Maku is just making up lies to try and silence those maku does not like.


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makuranososhi
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16 May 2010, 1:47 pm

A note to WorldTraveler:

Anyone can read for themselves your past posts, and the moderation team has been aware of your behavior. No lies, just even enforcement of the rules to preserve the sanctity of a support site. Since I am no longer a moderator, you're Alex's problem now. It doesn't change that you continue to display an unsettling ignorance of the law itself, the potential abuses inherent in its' design, its' violation of constitutional and democratic principles, or the effect that this legislation has outside the intended effects. You've unabashedly ignored the fact that I have said the there is a problem but this is not the solution; apparently because it doesn't jibe with your inaccurate attempts to paint me as something I'm not. So you follow your path, I will follow mine.


M.


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lau
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16 May 2010, 5:50 pm

Worldtraveler wrote:
...
I have not attacked maku personally, I know nothing about maku, and I have used no racists words.
Maku is just making up lies to try and silence those maku does not like.

WrongPlanet Rules
Quote:
Unacceptable content includes swearing; racist, sexist, homophobic language; behavior intended to provoke or belittle other members;
Quote:
2. Personal attacks.
This includes insinuation, ridicule and personal insults, regardless of whether direct or indirect. Attacking an opinion, belief or philosophy is acceptable, but attacking the person making the comments is not.
Quote:
... and anything else that purposely causes conflict with other members.
Quote:
* Personal attacks against people or other sites are not permitted. If you have an issue with someone, talk to them about it somewhere other than our forum.

You chose to make public attacks, so you may consider this your final warning, Worldtraveler.


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17 May 2010, 3:10 pm

Worldtraveler wrote:
A note to everyone.

Maku , a moderator is useing the rules and his/her power to shut up people that maku does not like.
Here is the threat and defamation maku sent me.

"Attacks on individuals or groups on WP will not be tolerated; neither will racist speech. If you need to speak such things, there are other venues available to you or you can even create your own. But it won't be accepted here.


M.

I have not attacked maku personally, I know nothing about maku, and I have used no racists words.
Maku is just making up lies to try and silence those maku does not like.


It happened to me too via PM...

[extensive quoting of purported private message conversation removed from this copy of the post by lau]

Absolute lunacy if you ask me. o_o


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Worldtraveler
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17 May 2010, 7:40 pm

Hey lau!

How about you support your accusation with EVIDENCE?

Where is a "racists" quote of mine?

what about the defamation of Maku? I have EVIDENCE of it.

Got that EVIDENCE yet?

I have EVIDENCE defamation and your baseless threats.

Considering the trolling for personal information on WP, and the lack of privacy, WP is a little suspect.

I also see and have recieve other personal attaacks, and yet I see no warnings to others. Ummmmmmm


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18 May 2010, 2:46 am

lau wrote:
Worldtraveler wrote:
...
I have not attacked maku personally, I know nothing about maku, and I have used no racists words.
Maku is just making up lies to try and silence those maku does not like.

WrongPlanet Rules
Quote:
Unacceptable content includes swearing; racist, sexist, homophobic language; behavior intended to provoke or belittle other members;
Quote:
2. Personal attacks.
This includes insinuation, ridicule and personal insults, regardless of whether direct or indirect. Attacking an opinion, belief or philosophy is acceptable, but attacking the person making the comments is not.
Quote:
... and anything else that purposely causes conflict with other members.
Quote:
* Personal attacks against people or other sites are not permitted. If you have an issue with someone, talk to them about it somewhere other than our forum.

You chose to make public attacks, so you may consider this your final warning, Worldtraveler.


I'm just wondering if people who constantly bash conservatives and conservative ideas -- not to mention semi-anti Christian views like "Would it have any value if the bible is a fairy tale?" -- would fall under these forum rules? As far as I've seen the door only swings one way. :(


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18 May 2010, 10:02 am

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/18/us/18 ... ?th&emc=th

Probably attitudes in Arizona reflect those of the older White people who have relocated there in recent years.



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18 May 2010, 10:51 am

pandabear wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/18/us/18divide.html?th&emc=th

Probably attitudes in Arizona reflect those of the older White people who have relocated there in recent years.


Thank you for that completely racist comment.


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pandabear
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18 May 2010, 11:14 am

You're quite welcome.



Descartes
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28 Jul 2010, 1:44 pm

A judge has just struck down major provisions of the immigration law. Here's a link:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_arizona_immigration