WrongPlanet.net an anti-christian site?

Page 9 of 43 [ 680 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ... 43 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

gailryder17
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Apr 2011
Age: 27
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,038
Location: Los Angeles

23 Apr 2011, 2:58 pm

TallyMan wrote:

Another aspect is that WP's members are from all over the world and many Western countries / societies are no longer as religious as America or the Arab countries. So this cultural divide crops up quite frequently. I've noticed that particularly the bible belt posters of America are often shocked at the level of atheism elsewhere. Christianity is so engrained in their society that they find it difficult to comprehend they are in a minority in the world.

Isn't America a Western society (just assuming Western means located in the Western hemisphere)?

Inuyasha
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,745

23 Apr 2011, 2:58 pm

Fnord wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Except there are signs that point to the fact certain events like the Exodus actually happened. Also it should be noted the Egyptians usually had a tendency to destroy all records of things they found embarassing or when something bad happened.

There are cities that have been discovered that people didn't think ever existed that were in the Bible. There is also a point when things stop being random chance.

Just because certain locations mentioned in the Bible may have actually existed, it does not mean that the Bible is anything more than an elaborately distorted historical account. Moreover, it is not de facto evidence that the Bible is God's inerrent and Holy Word.

Remember, those patriarchs seemed hell-bent on supporting their claim as "God's Chosen People", while simultaneously slaughtering entire populations (men, women, and children), and keeping their own women subjugated under male domination; meanwhile claiming justification for these atrocities as being the fruition of "God's Will".

Nice guy, this God of yours...

The Bible is mostly laid out like a historical text not simply a rulebook, and it was fairly brutal back in that time period.

DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,689
Location: Northern California

23 Apr 2011, 3:00 pm

Fnord wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

... I am hurt by the terminology that is allowed on WP for discussing faith...

It's been over two years since I've used the term "Delusional" to describe people of faith.

Does it still hurt you?

It was used in this thread by someone I consider a friend and think the world of. Without that one post, I probably would have ignored this thread, to be honest. This is an argument I don't need in my life and am sick of fighting.

But, sometimes, a reminder of how I do actually feel about it seems in order.

_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 23 Apr 2011, 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,792
Location: Stendec

23 Apr 2011, 3:03 pm

Well, I'm sorry for my part in that. I guess I set the standard that others now follow.

:cry:

_________________

I have no love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,792
Location: Stendec

23 Apr 2011, 3:06 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

The Bible is mostly laid out like a historical text not simply a rulebook, and it was fairly brutal back in that time period.

God's Chosen People were fairly brutal, and turned to their god for justification.

So tell me this: If the bible is so accurate, then how did it get the value of Pi so wrong?

_________________

I have no love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.

Last edited by Fnord on 23 Apr 2011, 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,689
Location: Northern California

23 Apr 2011, 3:06 pm

Fnord wrote:

Well, I'm sorry for my part in that. I guess I set the standard that others now follow.

:cry:

Thank you for recognizing my feelings.

_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).

ryan93
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,315
Location: Galway, Ireland

23 Apr 2011, 3:09 pm

Quote:

I can respect a person who makes an unsupportable claim, as long as the person admits that the claim is unsupportable. I can even respect such a person for adhering to an irrational belief (as long as it hurts no one).

What I can not respect is the person who says, "I believe it, so it must be true, and you had better believe it too!"

Such people inspire more division than unification with their expressions of faith.

I feel the same: Irrationalism is fine, so long as a person doesn't claim logic dictates how they form beliefs. State imposition of belief, or blowing people up in the name of belief, is never acceptable.

DW_a_mom wrote:

ryan93 wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

I don't have a need to show people why I believe or sell them on faith, I know it is a waste of my time. But I think the debate that does occur needs to be conducted in terms that do not mock my mental state and intelligence from the very first sentence. Why would I bother to engage with anyone at any level who shows such a complete and utter lack of respect for my ability to think? I know I can't have a mutually respectful discussion because they have already made it clear what they think of everything I could possibly say on the topic: deluded and irrational. Simple self preservation says "walk away. NOW."

It's just that people won't respect an idea that can't be backed up, and they find it strange that you came to a conclusion without a reason you can express.

I have expressed it and effectively. But repeating myself to those with no actual interest in the answer is not something I am going to do. My life is far too busy for that. I'd rather invest energy where positive impact is actually possible.

I don't have a need to debate faith here, but if someone else does, and expresses their frustration at the way they are allowed, in effect, to be mocked, I will stand up for them.

If someone had managed to provide the level of evidence for God we expect for every other claim (age of the Universe, size of an Electron), then they would win the Nobel for, everything. The problem is people don't provide a high enough level of evidence; the evidence supports multiple theories, it had biased observers, or a million other flaws. Your evidence has to be more unlikely to be false than the claim it's making (extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof). Evidence of such a caliber for God (or in general, for "My God") has not met that high standard.

_________________
The scientist only imposes two things, namely truth and sincerity, imposes them upon himself and upon other scientists - Erwin Schrodinger

Member of the WP Strident Atheists

leejosepho
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,011
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock

23 Apr 2011, 3:11 pm

Vigilans wrote:

Science and religion could go hand in hand if the religious scientists put working to falsify their own beliefs in equal standing, which is no doubt a rare occurrence.

In many cases, it seems we would first have to somehow help them see and admit they are religious.

Fnord wrote:

What I can not respect is the person who says, "I believe it, so it must be true, and you had better believe it too!"

Agreed ... and same goes for the pseudo-scientists.

_________________
I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.
==================================

leejosepho
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,011
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock

23 Apr 2011, 3:13 pm

Fnord wrote:

God's Chosen People were fairly brutal, and turned to their god for justification.

Do you have any actual evidence of that?

As I understand things, they were simply doing as told.

_________________
I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.
==================================

cdfox7
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,700

23 Apr 2011, 3:15 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

And we wonder why I don't bother.

The nature of faith makes it impossible to meet the debate standards set by members of this forum. I stand up with gay rights and with "your" side on so many touchy issues, yet the argument I see in defense of hurting my feelings is that Christians do worse, some subset that isn't ME. Two wrongs never make a right.

I'll simply repeat. I am hurt by the terminology that is allowed on WP for discussing faith. I rarely join in any religious discussion because I have no desire to read hurtful phrases over and over and have them defended because they come from "logic.". Logic is no excuse for hurting people and there is no other aspect of my life where people defend it as such.

That may be down to the fact that some people haven't planted the mustard seed called faith. If we all had the faith of the Brother of Jard had then that will meet the debate standards ihmo & at the same time render the debate moot as we'll all agree on the issue.

The Atheists' argument from my own experience is basically two things:
1. The idea and believe of God
2. Logical argument to disproof God

The disproof only increases my believe in God cos there logical is wasted energy & can be put to better use. Yes am lazy with not wasted mental energy. Logic is only a double edged sword. I choice not to let theres energy wasters hurt my feeling as I can have a choice over my emotions. Take away the logical argument what do you have, you have God :wink:

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

23 Apr 2011, 3:16 pm

leejosepho wrote:

Fnord wrote:

God's Chosen People were fairly brutal, and turned to their god for justification.

Do you have any actual evidence of that?

As I understand things, they were simply doing as told.

The Israelites of biblical times particular the one's who came into the Land with Joshua were as bad a** or worse than the most extreme Muslims who live today. The Book of Joshuah is an account of town burning on a grand scales. Later on the Israelites become more urbanized and oriented to commerce but they were as bad a bunch as ever lived when they were militant warriors.

I often ask myself how did the Warrior Jews who fought along with and under Joshuah turn into the nerds and bookworms we see today?

ruveyn

DeaconBlues
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,661
Location: Earth, mostly

23 Apr 2011, 3:16 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

@ Fnord

It quite honestly takes just as much faith to not believe in God as it does to believe in God.

Actually it takes less faith and more reliance on facts.

One does not believe a fact. One beholds a fact.

ruveyn

Present me with facts disproving the idea that there is a God. Not "lack of data", facts.

Agnostics are the only people who can claim their faith is logical - lack of data should logically lead to withholding judgment, not a solid conclusion that the question is closed.

I do not pretend that my faith is "proved", or "logical" - but it is what I believe, for reasons I cannot prove to anyone else's satisfaction. However, I do take exception to being referred to as "superstitious", placing religious faith on the same level as fear of the number 13, or another fan favorite, a "deluded fool". I don't tell solid atheists they're being "foolish" or "deluded" when they insist their conclusions are "logical" or "supported by evidence" - all I ask is a similar level of courtesy in return, which is apparently too much to ask.

_________________
Sodium is a metal that reacts explosively when exposed to water. Chlorine is a gas that'll kill you dead in moments. Together they make my fries taste good.

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

23 Apr 2011, 3:18 pm

DeaconBlues wrote:

Present me with facts disproving the idea that there is a God. Not "lack of data", facts.

I am under no burden to prove a negative. Let those who think G-D exists prove that it is the case if they are so inclined.

ruveyn

leejosepho
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,011
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock

23 Apr 2011, 3:22 pm

ruveyn wrote:

I often ask myself how did the Warrior Jews who fought along with and under Joshuah turn into the nerds and bookworms we see today?

My brain is too tired to ponder that one at the moment, but it is now certainly filed for later ...

_________________
I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.
==================================

DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,689
Location: Northern California

23 Apr 2011, 3:25 pm

I make no claims that my reasons can work for anyone but but me, but I can persuade you that if you had my experiences you would have faith, too or, if not that, at least leave you comfortable my faith comes from logic.

That is kind of the best you do with faith, isn't it?

_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).

ryan93
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,315
Location: Galway, Ireland

23 Apr 2011, 3:28 pm

DeaconBlues wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

@ Fnord

It quite honestly takes just as much faith to not believe in God as it does to believe in God.

Actually it takes less faith and more reliance on facts.

One does not believe a fact. One beholds a fact.

ruveyn

Atheism is a misnomer; Atheists are those who don't believe in God, as opposed to those who disbelieve in God, who assert 100% certainty there is no God. There is a burden of proof on the Latter, but not of the former. In a sense, most Atheists are agnostic to some degree.

_________________
The scientist only imposes two things, namely truth and sincerity, imposes them upon himself and upon other scientists - Erwin Schrodinger

Member of the WP Strident Atheists

Page 9 of 43 [ 680 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ... 43 Next

Jump to:

WrongPlanet.net an anti-christian site? Post Reply New Topic

WrongPlanet.net an anti-christian site?