The US is heading toward a grave historical mistake.

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MarketAndChurch
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02 Oct 2011, 7:34 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

MarketAndChurch wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

MarketAndChurch wrote:

the best thing for the palestinians, the region, and helping to evolve the stone-age arab is not statehood but israeli citizenship.

perhaps but a democratic state with the Palestinian birth rate would result in a Jewish minority state.
this is what will eventually happen anyway if there is not a 2 state solution.
For me I believe everyone deserves to live in a secular democracy so no skin off my (ample) nose.

I don't know... Israel has the highest birth rate of any industrial nation that side of the atlantic. And most arab states(to name a few: Turkey, Iran,) now have below-replacement birth rates. What is the palestinian birth rate anyways?

Not to sound anally retentive, but while Turkey and Iran are Muslim countries, they are not ethnic or linguistic Arabic.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

thats fine. my point is that isreali's are outproducing their muslim neighbors. At 3 kids average, it is the highest in the industrialized world. Turkey and Iran and the Palestinian territories, it is very very very low. They will have 6-8 syblings but maybe 1 or 2 kids at most. Perhaps in the case of the palestinian, they blow up or loose too many of their kids to violence. But that is irrespective of their birth rates.

Isreali's will out-populate most European nations by the end of the century.

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JakobVirgil
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02 Oct 2011, 7:41 pm

MarketAndChurch wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

MarketAndChurch wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

MarketAndChurch wrote:

the best thing for the palestinians, the region, and helping to evolve the stone-age arab is not statehood but israeli citizenship.

Not to sound anally retentive, but while Turkey and Iran are Muslim countries, they are not ethnic or linguistic Arabic.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

thats fine. my point is that isreali's are outproducing their muslim neighbors. At 3 kids average, it is the highest in the industrialized world. Turkey and Iran and the Palestinian territories, it is very very very low. They will have 6-8 syblings but maybe 1 or 2 kids at most. Perhaps in the case of the palestinian, they blow up or loose too many of their kids to violence. But that is irrespective of their birth rates.

Isreali's will out-populate most European nations by the end of the century.

the Palestinian fertility rate is 3.05 children per woman in the west bank.
in Gaza it 5.19 much higher than Israels (according to CIA factbook)
so the same as Israel why are you using Turkey and Iran's rates?
Lebanon would be a better model if you could not get Palestines which you can.

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Inuyasha
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02 Oct 2011, 7:45 pm

MarketAndChurch wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

MarketAndChurch wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

MarketAndChurch wrote:

the best thing for the palestinians, the region, and helping to evolve the stone-age arab is not statehood but israeli citizenship.

Not to sound anally retentive, but while Turkey and Iran are Muslim countries, they are not ethnic or linguistic Arabic.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I just thought of something that may have other Arab Countries worried.

If someone pisses off the Israelis and the Palestinians enough to join forces, I don't think their adversaries would stand a chance and the other Arab Countries know this.

JakobVirgil
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02 Oct 2011, 7:53 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

MarketAndChurch wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

MarketAndChurch wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

MarketAndChurch wrote:

the best thing for the palestinians, the region, and helping to evolve the stone-age arab is not statehood but israeli citizenship.

Not to sound anally retentive, but while Turkey and Iran are Muslim countries, they are not ethnic or linguistic Arabic.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

This one is going in the scrapbook.
How well armed do you think Palestine is?
do a google search you may be suprised.

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Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

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02 Oct 2011, 7:59 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

MarketAndChurch wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

MarketAndChurch wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

MarketAndChurch wrote:

the best thing for the palestinians, the region, and helping to evolve the stone-age arab is not statehood but israeli citizenship.

Not to sound anally retentive, but while Turkey and Iran are Muslim countries, they are not ethnic or linguistic Arabic.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

This one is going in the scrapbook.
How well armed do you think Palestine is?
do a google search you may be suprised.

Besides this, Israel's IDF can take on basically anybody in the region. Israeli society itself is far more militarized than it's neighbors. Their neighbors have more to fear than Israel if there was a war. Inuyasha I recommend you do some reading into Israel's military forces, they would rip just about anybody a new as*hole. Even completely surrounded. AND ASIDE FROM THAT, they have nuclear weapons, which dissuades anybody from attacking them

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Inuyasha
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02 Oct 2011, 8:02 pm

Vigilans wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

MarketAndChurch wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

MarketAndChurch wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

MarketAndChurch wrote:

the best thing for the palestinians, the region, and helping to evolve the stone-age arab is not statehood but israeli citizenship.

Not to sound anally retentive, but while Turkey and Iran are Muslim countries, they are not ethnic or linguistic Arabic.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

This one is going in the scrapbook.
How well armed do you think Palestine is?
do a google search you may be suprised.

That doesn't change the fact that the new territory would put Tel Aviv within easy range of short to medium range rockets.

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02 Oct 2011, 8:05 pm

Look into "Iron Dome", Israel's new air defense system. It is very effective at shooting down rockets. The US is even looking into purchasing models

Inuyasha
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02 Oct 2011, 8:11 pm

Vigilans wrote:

Look into "Iron Dome", Israel's new air defense system. It is very effective at shooting down rockets. The US is even looking into purchasing models

Too bad that counts against our nuclear missiles in the treaty Obama foolishly signed which has effectively torpedoed our having a missile defense system. Furthermore a missile defense system can be overwhelmed by shear numbers of missiles.

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02 Oct 2011, 8:15 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

Look into "Iron Dome", Israel's new air defense system. It is very effective at shooting down rockets. The US is even looking into purchasing models

Palestinian attacks generally do not involve huge numbers of rockets. Even so, Israel's size means that expanding or decreasing the border marginally [from a geographic area standpoint in relation to weapon ranges] has little to no effect on rocket attacks, as most places in Israel are in range of attack regardless

Last edited by Vigilans on 02 Oct 2011, 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Vexcalibur
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02 Oct 2011, 8:42 pm

I am glad Inuyasha pointed out about the nuclear bombs. Israel has plenty, Palestine does not. Israel will be just fine.

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John_Browning
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02 Oct 2011, 11:33 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:

I am glad Inuyasha pointed out about the nuclear bombs. Israel has plenty, Palestine does not. Israel will be just fine.

That's fine if you want to put Israel in a position of having to consider using nuclear weapons in situations where that would have previously been considered absurd.

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Vigilans
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03 Oct 2011, 3:42 am

At the present time Israel is already in such a situation that they are in "a position to consider using nuclear weapons" as this is a prime deterrent on their neighbors.

In any case, there should be a plebiscite on it, as I think, in principle, it is right for a people to be able to determine their own destiny.

I am firmly convinced, therefore, that to set up a republic which is to last a long time, the way to set about it is to constitute it as Sparta and Venice were constituted; to place it in a strong position, and so to fortify it that no one will dream of taking it by a sudden assault; and, on the other hand, not to make it so large as to appear formidable to its neighbors. It should in this way be able to enjoy its form of government for a long time. For war is made on a commonwealth for two reasons: to subjugate it, and for fear of being subjugated by it. Niccolò Machiavelli, Discourses on Livy

This quote in particular illustrates the type of strategy that Israel (or, another example, Switzerland) has been employing. In this case, the "fortification" against "sudden assault", is the excellent IDF, and naturally, their nuclear deterrent.

ruveyn
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03 Oct 2011, 5:10 am

John_Browning wrote:

Vexcalibur wrote:

I am glad Inuyasha pointed out about the nuclear bombs. Israel has plenty, Palestine does not. Israel will be just fine.

That's fine if you want to put Israel in a position of having to consider using nuclear weapons in situations where that would have previously been considered absurd.

For Israel to use nukes against Palestinians is equivalent to Sampson pulling the Temple of Dagon down on the Phillistines and himself too. Think of the fall out. If one is going to use A-Bombs one uses them on people who live far far away.

ruveyn

Kraichgauer
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03 Oct 2011, 10:13 am

ruveyn wrote:

John_Browning wrote:

Vexcalibur wrote:

I am glad Inuyasha pointed out about the nuclear bombs. Israel has plenty, Palestine does not. Israel will be just fine.

That's fine if you want to put Israel in a position of having to consider using nuclear weapons in situations where that would have previously been considered absurd.

Oh, but don't you remember? Christ will return, and he'll sort out the righteous!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

ruveyn
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03 Oct 2011, 10:38 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Oh, but don't you remember? Christ will return, and he'll sort out the righteous!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

The day after angels of the Lord fly out from my a**

ruveyn

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03 Oct 2011, 10:58 am

ruveyn wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Oh, but don't you remember? Christ will return, and he'll sort out the righteous!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

The day after angels of the Lord fly out from my a**

ruveyn

Something like that. :lol:

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

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