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Do you believe in reincarnation?

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Do you believe in reincarnation?
Strong "yes!" 12%  12%  [ 6 ]
Strong "no!" 43%  43%  [ 22 ]
Eh, maybe it's possible... 45%  45%  [ 23 ]
Total votes : 51

Fnord
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03 Nov 2020, 12:21 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Jakki wrote:
Fnord is there any unexplained human phenomena that you do not have a explanation for?
If there is a human phenomenon for which I have an explanation, then it is not unexplained.
... Skeptics have the habits of following mantras and not examining the data if it doesn't conform to their paradigm.
Many non-skeptics have the habits of (a) adhering to their beliefs only because those beliefs make them feel good, and of (b) rejecting any real-world data if it does not conform to those beliefs.



techstepgenr8tion
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03 Nov 2020, 2:14 pm

Plenty of good reminders in this thread that arguments over metaphysics of this sort aren't just similar to politics - they are a kind of politics. The behaviors around them tend to be the same, the behavioral IQ notches tend to be the same (people who generally float around 115 to 120 dipping 30 points), and the partisan hacks tend to be very little different than they would be if the topic were Blue or Red team. It's not 'anyone not on muhside', it's the general temperature and moves being made.


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03 Nov 2020, 2:37 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Plenty of good reminders in this thread that arguments over metaphysics of this sort aren't just similar to politics - they are a kind of politics. The behaviors around them tend to be the same, the behavioral IQ notches tend to be the same (people who generally float around 115 to 120 dipping 30 points), and the partisan hacks tend to be very little different than they would be if the topic were Blue or Red team. It's not 'anyone not on muhside', it's the general temperature and moves being made.
Off Topic
All meta-discussions aside, after 30+ years, no one has beat my "What's In The Box?" challenge, which goes something like this:

I select a container at random, and place inside 3 randomly-chosen objects.  Then I place the container at a randomly-chosen (yet secure) location.

All that anyone has to do is describe where the container is, what the container is, and what is inside the container.

The person accepting the challenge can use whatever paranormal abilities they claim to possess (i.e., astral projection, channeling of spirits, clairvoyance, precognition, telepathy, et cetera).

There are a few restrictions, however...

• No hints will be given. The challenge is called "What's In The Box?" not "20 Questions".

• The location must be exact: Street addresses, map grid coordinates, or latitude/longitude/elevation are acceptable, while vague descriptions like "near water" or "the letter 'M' is significant" are not acceptable. Better yet, show up with the container and tell me where you found it.

• The container's description must be as exact as possible: "a Cheerios cereal box" or "a hollowed-out marrow-gourde" are more acceptable than "squarish" or "roundish".

• The contents' descriptions must be as exact as possible: "a key, a coin, and a wingnut" are more acceptable than "a few bits of metal".

That last one brings up an important point: These descriptions must be in written English, and use standard dictionary definitions for each word.  For instance, one description indicated that one of the objects was "Red".  The object was a black-and-white newspaper clipping.  The person taking the test insisted that he passed because newspapers are "Read", and that "Read" was what he originally meant. ("Sorry dude, you failed.")

In 30+ years, no one has beaten the challenge.

No one.

Note that I am not running the challenge now, so please let's not have anyone start throwing guesses at me.



Last edited by Fnord on 03 Nov 2020, 2:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

The_Face_of_Boo
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03 Nov 2020, 2:51 pm

Reincarnation is in the core of the Druze faith, a religion which is very ancient in my country - they have strange and complicated familial ties like "siblings-by-reincarnation" or "mother-by-reincarnation" ; a 10 years old girl for instance may claim she was the mother of now-adults family and she may even acquire certain rights from that "former" family.

Full old documentary on the subject; I think it was shot in early 90 just after the war



I personally believe they brainwash these kids somehow, implanting memories into them that they aren't theirs (think of the Inception movie; which is a fiction but you get the idea) . The way how these 'incarnated' kids talk like adults about their brutal "deaths" is kinda creepy tho.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 03 Nov 2020, 3:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Fnord
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03 Nov 2020, 2:56 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
... I personally believe they brainwash these kids somehow, implanting memories into them that they aren't theirs (think of the Inspection movie; which is a fiction but you get the idea) . The way how these 'incarnated' kids talk like adults about their brutal deaths is kinda creepy tho.
I share this belief, and extend it to all so-called "reincarnated" people.  They are either deliberate frauds, or what they "remember" are based on stories they've heard as children -- the previously-mention Virginia Tighe/Bridey Murphy case, for example.



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03 Nov 2020, 3:02 pm

Fnord wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Plenty of good reminders in this thread that arguments over metaphysics of this sort aren't just similar to politics - they are a kind of politics. The behaviors around them tend to be the same, the behavioral IQ notches tend to be the same (people who generally float around 115 to 120 dipping 30 points), and the partisan hacks tend to be very little different than they would be if the topic were Blue or Red team. It's not 'anyone not on muhside', it's the general temperature and moves being made.
Off Topic
[color=black]All meta-discussions aside, after 30+ years, no one has beat my "What's In The Box?" challenge, which goes something like this:

So the logic is something like 'psychic claims don't vet ergo consciousness only exists on neurons'. Smooth transition I suppose for some.


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03 Nov 2020, 3:06 pm

Off Topic
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Fnord wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Plenty of good reminders in this thread that arguments over metaphysics of this sort aren't just similar to politics - they are a kind of politics. The behaviors around them tend to be the same, the behavioral IQ notches tend to be the same (people who generally float around 115 to 120 dipping 30 points), and the partisan hacks tend to be very little different than they would be if the topic were Blue or Red team. It's not 'anyone not on muhside', it's the general temperature and moves being made.
All meta-discussions aside, after 30+ years, no one has beat my "What's In The Box?" challenge, which goes something like this: ...
So the logic is something like 'psychic claims don't vet ergo consciousness only exists on neurons'. Smooth transition I suppose for some.
No, the logic of my "What's In The Box?" challenge goes something like this:

"If you claim to have a real, genuine paranormal ability, then I challenge you to demonstrate its effects."

Nothing more, and nothing less.



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03 Nov 2020, 3:14 pm

Fnord wrote:
Off Topic
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Fnord wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Plenty of good reminders in this thread that arguments over metaphysics of this sort aren't just similar to politics - they are a kind of politics. The behaviors around them tend to be the same, the behavioral IQ notches tend to be the same (people who generally float around 115 to 120 dipping 30 points), and the partisan hacks tend to be very little different than they would be if the topic were Blue or Red team. It's not 'anyone not on muhside', it's the general temperature and moves being made.
All meta-discussions aside, after 30+ years, no one has beat my "What's In The Box?" challenge, which goes something like this: ...
So the logic is something like 'psychic claims don't vet ergo consciousness only exists on neurons'. Smooth transition I suppose for some.
No, the logic of my "What's In The Box?" challenge goes something like this:

"If you claim to have a real, genuine paranormal ability, then I challenge you to demonstrate its effects."

Nothing more, and nothing less.

Then it's only relevant to a particular corner of this topic.


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03 Nov 2020, 3:17 pm

Off Topic
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Fnord wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Fnord wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Plenty of good reminders in this thread that arguments over metaphysics of this sort aren't just similar to politics - they are a kind of politics. The behaviors around them tend to be the same, the behavioral IQ notches tend to be the same (people who generally float around 115 to 120 dipping 30 points), and the partisan hacks tend to be very little different than they would be if the topic were Blue or Red team. It's not 'anyone not on muhside', it's the general temperature and moves being made.
All meta-discussions aside, after 30+ years, no one has beat my "What's In The Box?" challenge, which goes something like this: ...
So the logic is something like 'psychic claims don't vet ergo consciousness only exists on neurons'. Smooth transition I suppose for some.
No, the logic of my "What's In The Box?" challenge goes something like this:

"If you claim to have a real, genuine paranormal ability, then I challenge you to demonstrate its effects."

Nothing more, and nothing less.
Then it's only relevant to a particular corner of this topic.
Which is why I post it inside an "Off Topic" bubble like this one.



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03 Nov 2020, 3:21 pm

Fnord wrote:
Off Topic
Which is why I post it inside an "Off Topic" bubble like this one.

Is reincarnation a paranormal ability?


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03 Nov 2020, 3:33 pm

Off Topic
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Which is why I post it inside an "Off Topic" bubble like this one.
Is reincarnation a paranormal ability?
That, young padawan, is a matter for philosophers to discuss.  I am just an engineer whose abilities are firmly grounded in the material world.



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03 Nov 2020, 3:44 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Reincarnation is in the core of the Druze faith, a religion which is very ancient in my country - they have strange and complicated familial ties like "siblings-by-reincarnation" or "mother-by-reincarnation" ; a 10 years old girl for instance may claim she was the mother of now-adults family and she may even acquire certain rights from that "former" family.


Their philosophy/faith is influenced by hinduism.



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03 Nov 2020, 3:47 pm

You can't coach a 3 year old to pretend to be from a completely different village and person, people, family whom they never met and remember where they left items in a box etc...



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03 Nov 2020, 3:53 pm

cyberdad wrote:
You can't coach a 3 year old to pretend to be from a completely different village and person, people, family whom they never met and remember where they left items in a box etc...

Similarly a dead person doesn't go to a skeptic society and say 'Here's a paranormal ability I have - I can make two living people shag and I'll be born nine months later! Gimme my money!'.


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03 Nov 2020, 5:14 pm

cyberdad wrote:
You can't coach a 3 year old to pretend to be from a completely different village and person, people, family whom they never met...
Have you never been a parent?  It's easy to coach kids into believing anything -- remember Santa Claus?  Adults can even coach kids into believing that getting naked and making porn is a normal childhood thing to do -- this disgusting process is called "grooming". 
cyberdad wrote:
... and remember where they left items in a box etc...
What's the difference between telling a kid that he left his brother's hand-me-down 21st-century jacket in the car and telling the same kid that he left the 18th-century toys they inherited from their great-grandparents' in the attic?



Last edited by Fnord on 03 Nov 2020, 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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03 Nov 2020, 5:16 pm

Fnord wrote:
JustFoundHere wrote:
... Proponents of reincarnation believe deja-vu like memories may sometimes be related to possible past lives.
It is much more likely that the déjà vu feeling is triggered by a neurochemical action in the brain that is not connected to any actual experience in the past.  One simply feels "strange" and then identifies the feeling with a memory, even though the experience is completely new.

In the déjà vu experience, we feel strange because we do not think we should feel familiar with the present perception.  That sense of inappropriateness is not present when one is simply unclear whether one has read a book or seen a film before.

Thus, it is possible that the attempt to explain the déjà vu experience in terms of lost memory, past lives, clairvoyance, and so on may be completely misguided.  We should be talking about déjà vu as a mere feeling, which may be caused by a brain state, by neurochemical factors during perception that have nothing to do with memory.

It is worth noting that the déjà vu feeling is common among psychiatric patients, and also frequently precedes temporal lobe epilepsy attacks.


This is entertaining as you have put limits on your own concept of deja Vu ..... but when exact moments occur
In a experience including exact dialogue without any prior dialog or physical interaction . It does cause myself to wonder . And am using Deja Vu quit loosely here , precognition might be a more appropriate word . As was seeing and hearing exact words and sentence , including placement of individuals moving into a front yard . Approx , 1 full minute prior to having had the experience occurr . Prior to my own arrival into the other side of that same yard.
And no indication before this that this interaction would possibly exist.
What neurochemical precursors , would allow for such a experience to exist.? This was prior to having be evaluated for any kind of diagnosis concerning myself. By many many years .


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