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slowmutant
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10 Jan 2009, 6:28 am

Kangoogle wrote:
Callista wrote:
Well, there's absolutely no evidence for it. I think the burden of proof is on whoever says he was.

:)
From Wiki:
Quote:
Michael Fitzgerald, an expert in autism spectrum disorders, concludes that Hitler suffered from, and met all the criteria of Asperger syndrome as documented by Hans Asperger.[8] As evidence of Asperger's Fitzgerald cites Hitler's poor sleep patterns, food fads, dislike of physical contact, inability to forge genuine friendships, and an emptiness in his human relations. His conversations in the Men’s Home in Vienna were really harangues and invited no reciprocity, for which he lacked this capacity. In Munich he was distant, self-contained, withdrawn and without friends. His comrades noted that he had no humanitarian feelings. He was obsessive and rarely made good or interesting company, except in the eyes of those who shared his obsessions or those in awe of, or dependent on him. He was single minded and inflexible. He spent a great deal of time with Albert Speer, examining architectural plans, and this remained a major focus of his life throughout. His other major interest was in the music of Wagner. His greatest interest, clearly, was in control over people and power over people.[9]

It is surprisingly well sourced as an article.


It's personally important to you that Hitler was autistic, isn't it? This is irritating the sh*t out of me right now. :x :roll:



Kangoogle
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10 Jan 2009, 6:48 am

slowmutant wrote:
Kangoogle wrote:
Callista wrote:
Well, there's absolutely no evidence for it. I think the burden of proof is on whoever says he was.

:)
From Wiki:
Quote:
Michael Fitzgerald, an expert in autism spectrum disorders, concludes that Hitler suffered from, and met all the criteria of Asperger syndrome as documented by Hans Asperger.[8] As evidence of Asperger's Fitzgerald cites Hitler's poor sleep patterns, food fads, dislike of physical contact, inability to forge genuine friendships, and an emptiness in his human relations. His conversations in the Men’s Home in Vienna were really harangues and invited no reciprocity, for which he lacked this capacity. In Munich he was distant, self-contained, withdrawn and without friends. His comrades noted that he had no humanitarian feelings. He was obsessive and rarely made good or interesting company, except in the eyes of those who shared his obsessions or those in awe of, or dependent on him. He was single minded and inflexible. He spent a great deal of time with Albert Speer, examining architectural plans, and this remained a major focus of his life throughout. His other major interest was in the music of Wagner. His greatest interest, clearly, was in control over people and power over people.[9]

It is surprisingly well sourced as an article.


It's personally important to you that Hitler was autistic, isn't it? This is irritating the sh*t out of me right now. :x :roll:

I am merely stating the facts here. Though Hitler being autistic does make a brilliant argument for sorting out society, before we get another one.



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10 Jan 2009, 7:20 am

Hitler wouldn't have mattered, if the Germans hadn't followed him. I think that if Hitler hadn't existed, somebody else would have taken his place and done something similar. The problem isn't that Hitler did something horrible (he did, obviously), but that when he did, people were too frightened, too xenophobic, and too worried about their damaged economy to stop him.


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Kangoogle
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10 Jan 2009, 7:22 am

Callista wrote:
Hitler wouldn't have mattered, if the Germans hadn't followed him. I think that if Hitler hadn't existed, somebody else would have taken his place and done something similar. The problem isn't that Hitler did something horrible (he did, obviously), but that when he did, people were too frightened, too xenophobic, and too worried about their damaged economy to stop him.

Given how clueless the average voter is in a Western democracy - its more than possible.



slowmutant
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10 Jan 2009, 7:23 am

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Michael Fitzgerald, an expert in autism spectrum disorders, concludes that Hitler suffered from, and met all the criteria of Asperger syndrome as documented by Hans Asperger.[8] As evidence of Asperger's Fitzgerald cites Hitler's poor sleep patterns, food fads, dislike of physical contact, inability to forge genuine friendships, and an emptiness in his human relations. His conversations in the Men’s Home in Vienna were really harangues and invited no reciprocity, for which he lacked this capacity. In Munich he was distant, self-contained, withdrawn and without friends. His comrades noted that he had no humanitarian feelings. He was obsessive and rarely made good or interesting company, except in the eyes of those who shared his obsessions or those in awe of, or dependent on him. He was single minded and inflexible. He spent a great deal of time with Albert Speer, examining architectural plans, and this remained a major focus of his life throughout. His other major interest was in the music of Wagner. His greatest interest, clearly, was in control over people and power over people.


Obsession with triviliaties is another Asperger trait, demonstrated brilliantly by this entire thread.



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10 Jan 2009, 1:58 pm

I have not read most of this thread (has anyone?), but I was going to mention Fitzgerald if no one else did. Yes, Fitzgerald diagnosed Hitler as having autistic psychopathy. The problem with this is that 1) Fitzgerald's definition of Aspergers Syndrome is closer to Schizoid personality disorder than it is to classic autism (Asperger's sample may have contained a mix of SPD boys and HFA boys, or boys who were both), and 2) Fitzgerald's descriptions are piecemeal lists of symptoms rather than an understanding of a whole person and how he functioned (almost all his famous "aspergers" are male). I guess in his definition of AS you don't need to be significantly impaired in work or personal relationships in an autistic way as long as you're a freak and impaired in some way.

Hitler was a creative type, and therefore a freak by conventional standards. Apparently he was actually talented as an artist. He was also seriously emotionally damaged, as were enough other people at the time to create a political party and a movement. (I mean, people voted for this guy, and I'm pretty sure they knew what he was like.)

I get really tired of all these personality disorders. I don't think they help, since they're mostly just lists of symptoms. I think describing the person as a whole person, with a description of whatever emotional damage and developmental screw ups they have would work better than categories for this. Most people who are screwed up don't need a label, they just need a life. And those who are label-worthy are perhaps better served by "emotional maturity of one-year-old" than "Narcissistic PD".



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11 Jan 2009, 2:17 pm

Hell hitler topic

A psychopath/sociopath. Megalomaniac. Mass murderer.

And very much dead. Unfortunately, there is still evil in the world. :evil:


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Kangoogle
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11 Jan 2009, 2:40 pm

sartresue wrote:
Hell hitler topic

A psychopath/sociopath. Megalomaniac. Mass murderer.

And very much dead. Unfortunately, there is still evil in the world. :evil:

Of course; the society which made him in the first place.



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11 Jan 2009, 2:43 pm

Kangoogle wrote:
sartresue wrote:
Hell hitler topic

A psychopath/sociopath. Megalomaniac. Mass murderer.

And very much dead. Unfortunately, there is still evil in the world. :evil:

Of course; the society which made him in the first place.


You would absolve Hitler of all liability? :o Interesting.



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11 Jan 2009, 2:47 pm

slowmutant wrote:
Kangoogle wrote:
sartresue wrote:
Hell hitler topic

A psychopath/sociopath. Megalomaniac. Mass murderer.

And very much dead. Unfortunately, there is still evil in the world. :evil:

Of course; the society which made him in the first place.


You would absolve Hitler of all liability? :o Interesting.

I would absolve him of some of the liability - he recognised the broader problem and the problem was not of his making. Unfortunately his attempt at a solution was pretty disastrous and ill-conceived.



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11 Jan 2009, 2:57 pm

Kangoogle wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
Kangoogle wrote:
sartresue wrote:
Hell hitler topic

A psychopath/sociopath. Megalomaniac. Mass murderer.

And very much dead. Unfortunately, there is still evil in the world. :evil:

Of course; the society which made him in the first place.


You would absolve Hitler of all liability? :o Interesting.

I would absolve him of some of the liability - he recognised the broader problem and the problem was not of his making. Unfortunately his attempt at a solution was pretty disastrous and ill-conceived.


So you're saying he wasn't really such a bad guy, and that he was only trying to do what he thought was right.

Interesting.



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11 Jan 2009, 3:28 pm

slowmutant wrote:
Kangoogle wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
Kangoogle wrote:
sartresue wrote:
Hell hitler topic

A psychopath/sociopath. Megalomaniac. Mass murderer.

And very much dead. Unfortunately, there is still evil in the world. :evil:

Of course; the society which made him in the first place.


You would absolve Hitler of all liability? :o Interesting.

I would absolve him of some of the liability - he recognised the broader problem and the problem was not of his making. Unfortunately his attempt at a solution was pretty disastrous and ill-conceived.


So you're saying he wasn't really such a bad guy, and that he was only trying to do what he thought was right.

Interesting.

I am saying that he was not totally evil - yes he did some evil things but he did in his own twisted way want to make the world a better place. I would say he was misguided for the most part - but he got one thing right, that being society needs sorting out.



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11 Jan 2009, 3:40 pm

He didn't want to make the world a better place. He wanted to make it a better place for a select group of people chosen on racial/cultural lines. Shooting someone so I can have his house might make my life better, but it doesn't make the world a better place and no-one would think that was what I was trying to do.


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11 Jan 2009, 4:04 pm

Psiri wrote:
He didn't want to make the world a better place. He wanted to make it a better place for a select group of people chosen on racial/cultural lines. Shooting someone so I can have his house might make my life better, but it doesn't make the world a better place and no-one would think that was what I was trying to do.

Unless you saw that person as evil or as having done wrong to you - which was how he saw the Jews (albeit, I am at pains to stress incorrectly).



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11 Jan 2009, 4:24 pm

Kangoogle wrote:
Psiri wrote:
He didn't want to make the world a better place. He wanted to make it a better place for a select group of people chosen on racial/cultural lines. Shooting someone so I can have his house might make my life better, but it doesn't make the world a better place and no-one would think that was what I was trying to do.

Unless you saw that person as evil or as having done wrong to you - which was how he saw the Jews (albeit, I am at pains to stress incorrectly).


...And all other non-white races, and most Europeans, and the disabled, and the intellectuals, and anyone who suggested he might be wrong? No. Fascism selects one group of people as important and allows no rights to anyone else. This underclass becomes material for enriching or empowering the elect, who hold their power by force. They do it, not because they think these people evil, but for the perks and the love of power they get at the expense of their fellow man.


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11 Jan 2009, 4:26 pm

Kangoogle wrote:
I am saying that he was not totally evil - yes he did some evil things but he did in his own twisted way want to make the world a better place. I would say he was misguided for the most part - but he got one thing right, that being society needs sorting out.


He wanted to make the world a better place by eliminating the Jews, and promoting the "Aryan" race as being superior. To achieve these aims he conscripted young men to go to war and he initiated the murder of millions. I think misguided is too gentle a term to describe such evil.