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RushKing
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17 Feb 2019, 10:48 pm

Crimadella wrote:
It comes down to compliance, if you comply, it isn't forceful or against your will. If you do not comply, yes, they can use force and that is your fault.

Would you ever tell that to a rape victim?



techstepgenr8tion
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18 Feb 2019, 3:58 am

AspE wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I clearly don't, I must not be reading the same history.
We would have lost the war without them. USSR lost more troops than any other nation in WWII.

You do know that they sent most of their returning soldiers to gulag for having been overseas when they came back from service? They did the same for their soldiers who were released from the Nazi concentration camps.


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Crimadella
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18 Feb 2019, 7:46 am

RushKing wrote:
Crimadella wrote:
It comes down to compliance, if you comply, it isn't forceful or against your will. If you do not comply, yes, they can use force and that is your fault.

Would you ever tell that to a rape victim?


We're not talking about rape victims?? We are talking about police officers. To compare the two is honestly insanity. As if we are suppose to return to 'The Wild West' days or that justifies you to attack a person you pick and 'think' is a fascist. That's irrational thinking and also incredibly evil. Let me catch people just saying a guy is a fascist because he has a trump hat on, or a man beating the s**t out of a women, kneeing her in the face repeatedly and kicking her once she is on the ground(Antifa's did that to a "Woman"). I will grab whatever blunt object I can find and straight up crack their skull open. What it is, is a form of ideological supremacy. Rather than race driven, they attack innocent people without justification, simply assuming someone is a fascist while knowing absolutely nothing about them is not justifiable. It's no different from KKK ruining around attacking people of other races nor any different from racist blacks creating a thing called 'the knock out game', randomly attack white people, men or women, in attempt to knock them out. Antifa is yet another form of prejudice yet even more ignorant because they will attack anyone they dream up as a fascist without any kind of evidence.



RushKing
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18 Feb 2019, 9:04 am

Crimadella wrote:
We're not talking about rape victims?? We are talking about police officers. To compare the two is honestly insanity.

No, because there is a degree of violation going on when a police officer coerces someone.
Crimadella wrote:
As if we are suppose to return to 'The Wild West' days or that justifies you to attack a person you pick and 'think' is a fascist. That's irrational thinking and also incredibly evil. Let me catch people just saying a guy is a fascist because he has a trump hat on, or a man beating the s**t out of a women, kneeing her in the face repeatedly and kicking her once she is on the ground(Antifa's did that to a "Woman"). I will grab whatever blunt object I can find and straight up crack their skull open. What it is, is a form of ideological supremacy. Rather than race driven, they attack innocent people without justification, simply assuming someone is a fascist while knowing absolutely nothing about them is not justifiable. It's no different from KKK ruining around attacking people of other races nor any different from racist blacks creating a thing called 'the knock out game', randomly attack white people, men or women, in attempt to knock them out. Antifa is yet another form of prejudice yet even more ignorant because they will attack anyone they dream up as a fascist without any kind of evidence.

Can a masked protester attack an innocent person? Yes, but I have already established that I don't think all violence is equal or always justified.

Police do all the things you criticize antifas for. The police attack and kill innocent people (including women) without evidence all the time and at a much higher rate. Have you ever seen cop crack a skull with a baton? They do it, and its not a pretty sight.

The scale and the intensity of violence the police commit is in a completely different playing field. Can you name a single person antifa has killed?



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18 Feb 2019, 9:26 am

RushKing wrote:
Crimadella wrote:
We're not talking about rape victims?? We are talking about police officers. To compare the two is honestly insanity.

No, because there is a degree of violation going on here.
Crimadella wrote:
As if we are suppose to return to 'The Wild West' days or that justifies you to attack a person you pick and 'think' is a fascist. That's irrational thinking and also incredibly evil. Let me catch people just saying a guy is a fascist because he has a trump hat on, or a man beating the s**t out of a women, kneeing her in the face repeatedly and kicking her once she is on the ground(Antifa's did that to a "Woman"). I will grab whatever blunt object I can find and straight up crack their skull open. What it is, is a form of ideological supremacy. Rather than race driven, they attack innocent people without justification, simply assuming someone is a fascist while knowing absolutely nothing about them is not justifiable. It's no different from KKK ruining around attacking people of other races nor any different from racist blacks creating a thing called 'the knock out game', randomly attack white people, men or women, in attempt to knock them out. Antifa is yet another form of prejudice yet even more ignorant because they will attack anyone they dream up as a fascist without any kind of evidence.

Can a masked protester attack an innocent person? Yes, but I have already established that I don't think all violence is equal or always justified.

Police do all the things you criticize antifas for. The police attack and kill innocent people (including women) without evidence all the time and at a much higher rate. Have you ever seen cop crack a skull with a baton? They do it, and its not a pretty sight.

The scale and the intensity of violence the police commit is in a completely different playing field. Can you name a single person antifa has killed?


You are missing the point, I criticize 'all people(including police) who 'unlawfully' commit acts of violence. Are you aware people also kill cops? You are trying to justify acts of violence, sorry, that doesn't float with me regardless of who does it. It is against the law to physically attack people, there are very good reasons why it has been made illegal. In no way are you going to convince me that physical violence is ok.

And no, as far as I know they haven't killed anyone yet. Being a lot of people are idiots, I assume it's coming. I'm more of a love and peace type guy, not a promoter of violence. I believe in civil debate.



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18 Feb 2019, 9:41 am

Crimadella wrote:
It is against the law to physically attack people,

And the law ironically allows police to commit acts of physical violence.
Crimadella wrote:
In no way are you going to convince me that physical violence is ok.

If you support the state, you support physical violence. There's no getting around that.



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18 Feb 2019, 9:42 am

And I know you can spin the argument towards war. What I'm saying is, Imagine you having a conversation with someone about politics, they disagree with you and start beating you, attempting to crack your skull. I am against that, i feel terribly sorry for you if you think that is ok. (It was justifiable to them) I'm not cool with people promoting violence.

"If you support the state, you support physical violence. There's no getting around that."

That is your opinion, not mine.



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18 Feb 2019, 9:45 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
You do know that they sent most of their returning soldiers to gulag for having been overseas when they came back from service? They did the same for their soldiers who were released from the Nazi concentration camps.

My point is the fascism led to WWII, and Trump likes it. Stalinism embraced authoritarianism too, and the only part of it that Republicans don't like is central ownership of the means of production.

That should scare you more than European style Social Democracies which just create social institutions alongside of capitalist ones for the benefit of the people, like Universal Health Care and a social safety net.



Last edited by AspE on 18 Feb 2019, 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Crimadella
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18 Feb 2019, 9:46 am

What is going to happen is people claim to be antifa's are going to continue inciting violence, if the law doesn't step in, other people will step in and "attack back". End result, people who believe this garbage are promoting civil war, real humane thing to do...



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18 Feb 2019, 9:48 am

Crimadella wrote:
What is going to happen is people claim to be antifa's are going to continue inciting violence, if the law doesn't step in, other people will step in and "attack back".

Fascists love to instigate violence so that they can justify authoritarian crackdowns on your rights.



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18 Feb 2019, 9:54 am

AspE wrote:
Crimadella wrote:
What is going to happen is people claim to be antifa's are going to continue inciting violence, if the law doesn't step in, other people will step in and "attack back".

Fascists love to instigate violence so that they can justify authoritarian crackdowns on your rights.


ok? And they would be wrong for that...correct? No different from another group of people inciting violence. People are straight up loosing their minds, I feel so sorry for the future of humanity.



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18 Feb 2019, 9:56 am

How all of this translates to me is, it's justifiable to physically beat people who disagree with you, applied to everybody.



RushKing
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18 Feb 2019, 10:08 am

Crimadella wrote:
And I know you can spin the argument towards war. What I'm saying is, Imagine you having a conversation with someone about politics

Why are you giving me a useless hypothetical scenario with zero context?

Do you want to have a grown up conversation? Or do you want me to say violence good or violence bad? :roll:



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18 Feb 2019, 10:21 am

Crimadella wrote:
...ok? And they would be wrong for that...correct? No different from another group of people inciting violence. People are straight up loosing their minds, I feel so sorry for the future of humanity.

Antifa people are reacting, not instigating. And I disagree with their methods, because fascists want violence to help implement fascism.



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18 Feb 2019, 10:22 am

Actually, I'm done discussing it. If you can't comment on it, I'm sorry you don't understand my view. We are free to remain in disagreement.



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18 Feb 2019, 10:24 am

AspE wrote:
Crimadella wrote:
...ok? And they would be wrong for that...correct? No different from another group of people inciting violence. People are straight up loosing their minds, I feel so sorry for the future of humanity.

Antifa people are reacting, not instigating. And I disagree with their methods, because fascists want violence to help implement fascism.



I'm glad you don't agree with their methods, I don't either.