TERF's - Feminists that don't think trans women are women

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To address this issue in a realistic ideology one must completely discount the idea of intersex individuals . Obviously none are addressing this issue .And they are a reality ., In nature and appear in more than just the human species.

Yes that was an attempt at being humorous.

Do you mean the article fails to adress the topic of intersex?

I guess it's just not the topic of the article. However, I would be very interested in learning the presented TERF's opinions on the intersex issues.

Agees.......... cannot address gender variations without it , I feel

Why?
We often adress issues fragmentarily.

I don't have an opinion on this, I grew up in a feminist household with my mother and three sisters after my father shacked up with a guy and remember reciting the same opinions about there being no difference in male and females (aged 19). As an adult, the women I have know have usually been more attuned to other people than the males that I know. Coincidentally I lived with someone who described herself as a rad fem not so long ago and she has transgender friends and never baulked at transwomen going to events that guys weren't invited to. I'm happy to be explained to (by scientists), I heard on the radio that women have a larger limbic system and didn't stop to question that or give it much thought. And you?

The article is called "The dispute between radical feminism and transgenderism" and that's what it covers.

1. I'm pretty sure that the differences are mainly statistical and variance among individuals can be an order of magnitude greater than gender differences.
2. Culture is so deeply inprinted into individuals and it influences development so seriously that it's nearly impossible to tell apart culture from nature, esp. as they constantly interact with each other. Example: Women and spatial navigation - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 2218307711

This article is okay, it attempts to present both points of view.

I don't like this generalization of feminism, I don't think most modern feminism groups see gender dysphoria as a threat. Some maybe do, but I think those are the ones being considered radical in that regard.

Yeah, I’d have to agree. None of the feminists I’ve known in person were against the T in LGBT. If anything, they were more open about it than most people in the area. Of course, there are certainly plenty of exceptions, but I’d suspect that they would be exceptions rather than the rule.

That's not what I was trying to say. I'm saying they would expect it as a logical consequence of their world view, because as far as I know, the patriarchy demon has not yet been slain. They believe society still oppresses, forces or at least gently guides women into female roles, female identities, femininity, nurturing professions etc. This idea was there in the feminist movement from the beginning, but really took off after legal restrictions on women were removed decades ago. That belief has been used to justify every recent feminist cause from quotas (because legal equality was not sufficient to see the changes they expected) in the business world to special education programmes to get women interested in STEM (because women weren't choosing the "right" subjects, despite having the same opportunity as men).

If gender really is a product of social pressure, then a male who believes he is female and says he has been this way since early childhood is quite the conundrum. There are very few ways to interpret this for a serious feminist. If gender is a product of the brain and even partly biological - then men and women are irreconcilably different and feminism is wrong about pretty much everything.

Many aren't particularly bright these days, particularly the modern university educated progressive. Most just take the label without really understanding it or how the T in LGBT totally undermines it. The smart ones either give up feminism or, more often, become TERFs (and move to British twitter for some reason).

This is the kinda thing that makes me wish I could go back to the 20th century.

Back then you didn't hafta think about things like "what your opinion is about women who don't accept transgender individuals who born male as fellow women".

I don't have an opinion about it. And...I don't wanna even think about it.

I work with a transgender guy. A nice person. you're supposed call this person "she". So I go along with it. But...I am not gonna beat up someone who calls him "him".

The T does not undermine feminism. Feminism is the advocacy for women’s rights with the basis of equality for the sexes.

*raises hand* University educated progressive here that has taken the label Feminist, my sex is also male and identify as mostly male.

Chances are that feminism does not mean the same thing to everyone. For me, I was interested in gender discrimination against females, and in turn I felt that the movement can also acknowledge discrimination against males. But I am also largely interested in femininity being along side masculinity in society, instead of masculinity considered strong and femineity considered weak, where everyone can take the parts that suit them to a degree that they are happy and no one is hurt.

I don't know if it is a rollercoaster for others, but I found a lot of shifting information since I was about what we understand on sexes and gender. First biology books as a kid, that did try to make it simple and say there big differences, which I found later lacked a lot nuance, such as in the likes of homosexuality. Then later I followed some information that talked about gender being entirely constructed, spread the idea of brains being no different among the genders, that if you just raised a child to meet certain expectations they would fit those gender norms. Then that gets all undone by several experiences, such as I think a case where twin boys were raised separately as one feminine and one masculine, which I think was a failure in the boy raised as a girl. And I think there were other ones like a young boy who maybe from some medical problem with his genitals was changed to be a girl and raised as such, but he still felt drawn to masculine things. Which pointed to there being differences.

But then transgender people defied those, where they also felt drawn to the things of the gender that they did not match the sex of, just like those changed. Pretty sure most current progressive belief is that there are indeed differences in the brains between genders, and that these do not always match the gender usually associated with that sex. As a introvert I can't really speak for a lot of feminist, but if they are like me they have altered/improved their beliefs as new information became available. If anything I have felt affirmed that feminism can currently stand not just for women's rights in terms of the sex, but also the gender for some cultural improvements, allow men to show femininity and recognise people by the gender that they identify as.