28 Jun 2020, 10:00 am
Bradleigh
Veteran
Joined: 25 May 2008
Age: 34
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia
28 Jun 2020, 10:12 am
28 Jun 2020, 10:13 am
28 Jun 2020, 10:16 am
28 Jun 2020, 10:27 am
Magna wrote:
magz wrote:
When it comes to notorious Internet trolls, I think it's a valid question: when protection from harassment outweights freedom of speech. British court found Ms Scottow guilty but not jail-worthy, justifying their decision by "deliberate" nature of her tweets "to cause distress". https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... weets.html
Apart from the transgender part of it, notorious trolling seems to be the thing.
On one end of the spectrum, we have concerns over freedom of expression. On the other end, there are suicides triggered by notorious trolling. It's a serious and not easy matter.
Apart from the transgender part of it, notorious trolling seems to be the thing.
On one end of the spectrum, we have concerns over freedom of expression. On the other end, there are suicides triggered by notorious trolling. It's a serious and not easy matter.
Let's scratch two of the examples I cited off the list then.
I realize that I have differing views on free speech than some do here. I accept that.
I'll lay it out there. AFAIK if someone said the following kinds of things to me, I would be offended. Some of the things would hurt my feelings and I would be troubled by them.
"You're ugly and I hate you."
"I wish you'd get cancer and die."
"The only good autistic is a dead autistic."
"I hope you rot in hell."
"You're an absolute piece of sh*t and I can't stand the sight of you."
"I think all cis white males should be castrated."
"I think you're conservative. Conservatives are Nazis and deserve the same fate."
"How low is your IQ? Do you even register? Wow, are you stupid."
"Are you Christian? I think Christians should be eradicated from
face of the earth."
"Shut up, Cracker. I hope a gang does you in someday."
None of the above do I believe should warrant a person being arrested or going to jail for saying them, even if they're directed toward me personally let alone to anyone else. Incidentally, I have never nor would I ever say any of the above to someone or to a group of people.
In contrast, if a person made direct threats toward me or anyone else:
"I'm going to...."
"You better watch it or I'll...."
"I'm going to get my friends together and we're going to..."
"You're dead."
"Watch your back, you never know when I'm going to..."
"I'm going to post on social media DIRECTLY encouraging someone/anyone to hurt you."
Such statements should be illegal.
And, naturally, if a person actually DOES commit violence toward another, such actions are and should be illegal.
I've acknowledged your position and I find it worth appearing in the public discussion on the topic.
I think we do have some sick situations in Europe - like when Zidane punched Materazzi for offending him, there was a debate that suggested if Materazzi said things like "you f***in Arab", he would have been guilty of a hate crime but if he said something like "your mother is a whore", then it would have been okay
28 Jun 2020, 10:42 am
Magna wrote:
magz wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
What can't you say in Europe because you would be thrown into prison for years, that you can say in America?
I'm curious of this, too. I think you can go to prison for seriously threatning to harm someone. Defamation is usually settled by public apology but I guess there may be some extreme cases that would end one in jail.
I heard some gossip about a priest in Sweden who ended in a jail - not for "years", Swedes tend to give short sentences if any - for an anti-LGBT sermon but I never learned the details. Most certainly, it couldn't have happened in this part of Europe so you could always flee to Poland
Stateside, freedom of speech, expression and publication runs through the veins of every U.S. resident. There are no laws preventing members of the Westboro Baptist Church, to use one infamous example, from holding signs above their heads that say, "God hates Muslims." In the U.K., a public sign declaring those statements could land you in prison for two years.
a 19-year-old woman was convicted of sending a "grossly offensive" message after she posted rap lyrics that included the N-word on her Instagram page. Where, also in April, a Scottish shitposter was found guilty of a hate crime for teaching a pug to do a Nazi salute and posting the footage on YouTube. Where in recent years individuals have been arrested and in some cases imprisoned for making racist comments or just cracking tasteless jokes on Twitter.
Scottow, a resident of Hertfordshire, England, was handcuffed in front of her autistic ten-year-old daughter and breastfeeding 20-month-old son, brought into custody and held for seven hours in a single jail cell. What heinous action warranted such drastic measures? The crime of “misgendering,” or calling a transgender individual by their biologically determined set of pronouns instead of their preferred pronouns, precipitated Scottow’s arrest. Stephanie Hayden, a biological male who recently transitioned to identifying as female on social media, reported Scottow to the police.
France’s highest court upheld the criminal conviction of 12 pro-Palestinian activists for violating restrictions against hate speech. Their crime? Wearing T-shirts that advocated a boycott of Israel — “Long live Palestine, boycott Israel,” the shirts read — which, the court ruled, violated French law that “prescribes imprisonment or a fine of up to $50,000
In 2012, a British Muslim teenager, Azhar Ahmed, was arrested for committing a “racially aggravated public order offence.” His crime? After British soldiers were killed in Afghanistan, he cited on his Facebook page the countless innocent Afghans killed by British soldiers and wrote: “All soldiers should DIE & go to HELL! THE LOWLIFE F*****N SCUM! gotta problem go cry at your soldiers grave & wish him hell because that where he is going.”
In 2010, a militant atheist was given a six-month suspended sentence for leaving anti-Christian and anti-Islam fliers in a religious room of the Liverpool airport; according to the BBC, “jurors found him guilty of causing religiously aggravated intentional harassment.”
Christian hoteliers Ben and Sharon Vogelenzang, accused by a Muslim patron of calling Muhammad a "warlord", were charged, but ultimately acquitted
In 2001, several Danish politicians were convicted under this provision for allegedly making "anti-Islamic" statements. More recently, in June 2010, the Danish crown prosecutor sought to lift MP Jesper Langballe's parliamentary immunity so that he could face charges under Article 266(b) for publishing an article about the creeping "Islamisation of Europe" and the subjugated status of Muslim women.
France: In 2002, four Muslim organizations filed a complaint against author Michel Houellebecq for stating that Islam was "stupid" and "dangerous" in an interview. Although the court acquitted Houellebecq, it refrained from doing so on free speech grounds. In 2005, politician Jean Marie Le Pen, runner-up in the 2002 presidential election, was convicted of inciting racial hatred for comments made to Le Monde in 2003 about the consequences of Muslim immigration in France. And in 2008, actress Brigitte Bardot was haled into court and convicted on charges of inciting racial hatred for her criticism concerning the ritual slaughter of sheep during a Muslim feast. Bardot was ordered to pay €15,000, the fifth time she was fined for inciting racial hatred against Muslims since 1997.
The book discusses over 30 “hate speech” cases and includes an up-to-date compendium containing hundreds of European “hate speech” laws. For example, in Germany, committing an “insult” is a criminal offense; in Poland “offending religious feelings” carries a two-year prison sentence; and in Sweden anyone who “expresses contempt” towards a group of persons may be imprisoned. Key European “hate speech” legal cases highlighted in the book: In June 2004, Swedish pastor Åke Green was sentenced by a district court to one month in prison for preaching a sermon on the biblical teaching against homosexual behavior. Green’s offence was expressing “contempt” or “disrespect” for a group of people. In March 2009, Ben and Sharon Vogelenzang, owners of a hotel, were charged with breaching Section 5 of Britain’s Public Order Act after a Muslim guest complained she was insulted by the owner’s breakfast conversation on religion. In December 2010, Helmut Griese, a 63-year-old retiree, was charged under section 188 of the Austrian Criminal Code for “disparagement of religious symbols.” His offence was yodeling in his garden--an act his Muslim neighbors claimed was an attempt to mock their faith.
It looks like I could go on all day. There's a long list on the internet.
If the laws are on the books, they're on the books. If person X or Y was acquitted on a particular charge or case was dismissed on a technicality and person X or Y didn't actually go to jail that doesn't mean the person Zed couldn't go to jail).
Also, I have no idea if the above links are from right leaning, left leaning, center, up, down or twirling around in circles leaning sites. If the articles are citing facts, it matters not what site the info is coming from. There's a propensity with some here to discount information based on which site it originated from. In regard to facts it's akin to disbelieving someone who is telling you that your car is on fire because that person happens to hold radical ideological beliefs or biases you're opposed to.
Link to Wikipedia’s page “Censorship in the UK” for your perusal if interested: it’s a medium-long page with several subsections, including ones in laws now abolished, such as the blasphemy laws which were scrapped in 2008.
Quite a few links to pages on specific acts of Parliament, and fairly good clarity on how they operate in practice.
The opening preamble is misleading, however, as it lists all areas of censorship that have ever existed under either English or Scottish law, going back into the Middle Ages.
Bradleigh
Veteran
Joined: 25 May 2008
Age: 34
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia
28 Jun 2020, 10:45 am
28 Jun 2020, 11:12 am
uncommondenominator wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
/\I had bears in my yard.Mama, papa and two cubs.The dogs ran them off.We also had a rabies problem a few years back with a bull actually getting infected.No animal control here.
I have also had to put down several deer that were sick with Chronic wasting disease.
I’m aware of gun laws, had my background check done when I purchased mine.
Apparent you know nothing about raccoons either.Lets see you grab ahold of a big one.Chew your hand off city boy.
Oh yeah, home invasion.There was one at my closest neighbors.
Drug addicts broke in and were rifling through her dead partners items.She had just died from cancer and they were looking for pain meds.The home owner’s friend was injured in the attack.It would take the police around 30 minuets to arrive out here.That's a long wait when you need help right then.
I have also had to put down several deer that were sick with Chronic wasting disease.
I’m aware of gun laws, had my background check done when I purchased mine.
Apparent you know nothing about raccoons either.Lets see you grab ahold of a big one.Chew your hand off city boy.
Oh yeah, home invasion.There was one at my closest neighbors.
Drug addicts broke in and were rifling through her dead partners items.She had just died from cancer and they were looking for pain meds.The home owner’s friend was injured in the attack.It would take the police around 30 minuets to arrive out here.That's a long wait when you need help right then.
Saying you know gun laws because you had a background check performed is like saying you know about international travel because you have a passport. Did they test your knowledge for this background check? Did you have to pass an exam? Qualify with a firearm? Did you attend a class perhaps?
ChEw YeR hAnD oFf CiTyBoY
YEET! *PUNT* Raccoon problem solved. Or is this now a ninja rabid raccoon that can dodge attacks n stuff, too? I would think that if I lived around that many animals that much, I'd find ways to coexist with them instead of shooting them all.But lets say you did legitimately need to put an animal down for humane heath reasons. A pistol, shotgun, or bolt action rifle should do it, ya?
And in the case of the invasion, first please explain how having the gun would have helped? I don't mean "they could have defended themselves!" and leave it at that - did they knock and when the door was answered they barged in? did they kick the door down and rush in? Did they sneak in, not even knowing anyone was home? How many addicts are we talking about? 2? 3? 17? How did they know that the owner had cancer, or that she had pain meds, and where she lived, to know to go exactly there, expecting to find exactly pain meds, looking in exactly the ex partner's stuff? How do you know that's what they were looking for? What is this neighbor and friend's age? What time of day was it? How close together are neighbors in this rural area? Do known drug addicts live anywhere nearby? I ask because it feels like details have been omitted.
At anyrate, lets assume that the stars have aligned, and for whatever reason, he did have a gun, already in his hands, before they even broke in, with which he then saved the day and drove them off. Would a pistol or a shotgun have been sufficient to the task?
So here's a neat thing they don't tell you. They bring up black on black crime, and point out that there's more black on black crime than there is black on white crime, which is statistically true. But white on white crime occurs at almost the same exact rate as black on black crime. The reason black on white crime is so low, is because neighborhoods are still heavily racially divided. We still have heavily black neighborhoods, and heavily white neighborhoods. Makes gerrymandering easier. Some people would argue that it happened by choice, that they WANTED it this way. Which may be half true, white people did, black people didn't. Racially biased housing and lending practices are another topic, but that's the major factor of how it was done. Point is, crime usually happens with neighborhoods, or between adjacent neighborhoods - real life isn't GTA, driving two cities away just to do your daily burglary and theft schtick. Also, just like white on white and black on black crimes happen at the same rate, black on white and white on black crimes also occur at the same rate. But when you say it that way, it doesn't make black people sound extra-crime-y.
My you are a excitable little feller aren’t you.
I don’t need a class, I’ve been around them all my life.I know gun safety and I can carry legally openly so no need for permit to carry.Gun laws vary state to state.
So here’s ours.
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/resour ... -gun-laws/
I also never said that I went around blasting animals from hell to breakfast.You ASSumed.Usually I live trap,if that’s an option, just did it with a large rat.I suppose we should have beat our dying horse over the head till she was dead instead of mercifully putting her out of her misery.Ditto for the sick deer.To club an animal to death is inhumane compared to a quick death by bullet.How would you prefer to go?
And you really know nothing about raccoons.Grab one and film it.Lets see you enjoy the experience of one latching onto your leg.Post it on YouTube so we can all enjoy.A large boar coon can drown a big dog, climb on its head and push it under the water.A small dog can get seriously injured.A friend siced her little dog on one and would up with a hefty vet bill.
You also ASSumed that I have tactical weapons,I never said that.I don’t.
So when a varmit attacks one of my geese and chickens I should shoo it off ?Let it just carry the bird off?
As for home invasion, broad daylight,the memorial was in the paper so they knew the home owner would be gone.Closest neighbor was me, over a 1/4 mile away, other neighbors even further.Of course they knew she had cancer, it’s a small rural area.Everyone knows everything about their neighbors.Two young drug addicts vrs two old folks.Owners came in and found them rifling around,dying cancer people have strong pain meds.Drug user in area? We have a meth problem.One of the old folks had to get medical attention from his head injury.Yes, a gun would have helped.All that would need to be done was to brandish it and they would have run like the cowards they were.They were well know as criminals in the community and had been charged with assault in the past.
I know about white on white crime.Happens here.I never have said that black people commit more crimes.What hat did you pull that rabbit out of?
Little Rock, AR crime rates compare to Springfield, MO.Both have roughly same population, same income, one predominantly white ,the other a large black community.Poverty and drug use cause crime, not color.
Tell me something I don’t know.
Last edited by Misslizard on 28 Jun 2020, 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
28 Jun 2020, 11:13 am
28 Jun 2020, 4:44 pm
funeralxempire
Veteran
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 30,834
Location: Right over your left shoulder
28 Jun 2020, 5:08 pm
28 Jun 2020, 5:35 pm
28 Jun 2020, 9:43 pm
Two more toddlers killed in Chicago within a week.
Shots fired from one vehicle into another on a Chicago street killed a 20-month-old boy, Sincere A. Gaston, sitting in his car seat. The drive-by shooting Saturday afternoon in the Englewood neighborhood on Chicago's South Side. Police said the toddler was shot in the chest. A bullet grazed his 22-year-old mother in the head. They were driving home from a laundromat. Seven shots were fired at her vehicle, according to police.
--------------------
A 3-year-old boy, Mekhi James, was also the victim of a drive-by shooting in the Austin community. On Saturday evening, Mekhi was heading home after getting a haircut with his stepfather when someone opened fire into their car. He wasn’t the first to die of gun violence in their family. Destinie Giles, Mekhi’s godmother, had a message for the person who took the young boy’s life. “Y’all broke a bond that can never be mended back together, you broke a family,” Giles said about the boy’s mother. “We just ordered our kids’ summer clothes and [she’s] asking me what is she supposed to do with my godson’s clothes? Y’all broke her.”:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/20051955/merlin_91724633.jpg)
Source: Chicago drive-by shooting kills 20-month-old child: 'When is this going to stop?'
IMHO the problem is not just guns but rather guns in the hands of gang members. If black lives really matter, then why is BLM not all over this, putting an end to these needless deaths. They should be out there demanding justice for Sincere and Mekhi, instead they are pulling down statues.
Last edited by jimmy m on 28 Jun 2020, 9:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
28 Jun 2020, 9:47 pm
jimmy m wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Whatever Works for Change You Do It now; at least i Do...
aghogday, you have a strange way of writing. It has a pattern to it. This becomes more evident when you lay it on one side. I couldn't quite see it for awhile. But I could see it yesterday.
I have an oximeter that I use to measure the oxygen content in my blood. The unit also provides a pictorial of my heart rate. So the way you are writing is very similar to a beating heart.
RiVeR FLoWiNG REaLiTY ALWaYS
ReViSinG ETeRNaLLY NoW We BRuSH AS PAiNTinG NeW
Smiles, Haha, 'Strange Lives Matter too'; Actually, My Writing
Gets Even More Interesting in Flow When It's Transferred to
Publish And i Center it; And Very Elegant Lamp Shapes appear
That i Never Pre-Plan as the Feeling When i Write in Flow is A Song
That Comes From Deep Down Far Beyond my Reasoning Mind; A Common
Experience that comes When 10,000 or so Hours of Practice in any Art Coming
In Autotelic Flow; The Science Term For Mastering Heaven Within With All Meditative
Arts Described
In Many Ways of
Artistic Expressions As
It's Really A Feeling of Bliss, Yes,
Nirvana Living in a Dance And Song
of Soul In SPiRiT HeART All Through Existence Now;
Let's Just Put it this way; if i could Put What the Feel Is
Of What i've practiced in Art of Flow in a Pill, Billionaires
Would Surely Give It All Away but A Bare Minimum as they
Would realize they've been looking in the Wrong Place for
'Heaven', Their Entire Life; Smiles, Other Metaphors Now Beside
What You Describe as a Graphic Representation of A Human Heart
Beat include Waves of the Ocean as i am surely Creating Shores That
Recede And Return too as the Page Becomes Earth in a Way to Capture
The Ocean
of my
Deeper
Mind in Flow.
Anyway, What the
Result is, is included in
the Link Below; don't bother
Yourself with Reading the Weekly
Effort of over 46 Thousand Words;
But Sure, Scroll Through And One Will
See There is a bit of Magic with the
Way i write that isn't always evident
With A Material Reductionist Eye;
Smiles, An Inquisitive Mind You
Have; Seeking A Bit, Out of the
Box Here too, by Seeing
What i do in
A Different
Way;
Yeah; It's Strange;
All Original Creativity
Is Always done in a way
That it's never been done before;
Except Heart Beats, Ocean Waves, And
The Rest of Nature Spiraling in Flow As Well;
Just A Reflection of All We are As Existence;
It's Not a straight line; You Are Surely Old
Enough to Remember Led Zeppelin and
The Song 'Kashmir' An Adequate
'Description' of This Heaven
Experience in Autotelic
Flow too; Again,
Life Is Not only
'Black
And
White;
Unless
We Don't
Paint Life
With Colors;
i'm not one to
Adhere to Sidewalks
Now; But i Spent Decades
of No WHere Else to go But Concrete;
A River Better Reflects A Soul Free; Just to be i am..
"All I see turns to brown
As the sun burns the ground
And my eyes fill with sand
As I scan this wasted land
Try to find, try to find what I feel
Oh, pilot of the storm who leaves no trace
Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place,
yellow desert stream My Shangri-La beneath the summer moon, I will return
again Sure as the dust that floats high in June, when movin' through Kashmir
Oh, father of the four winds, fill my sails, across the sea of years
With no provision but an open face, along the straits of fears"
Smiles; i've Got One Lovely Brown Friend From A Place
Close Enough to Kashmir; June Desert Dust Is Blowing
A Bit High In this Wasted Land in Straits
of Fear; Yellow Streams my Wife
Wades in Her Bikini Are
Surely Heavenly too; And
It's True; Yes, Self-Fulfilling
Prophecies Continue NoW iN
Chaos Magic
Beyond
All Time,
Distance,
Space, And
Matter As that is
Precisely What Our Total Minds are
Beyond All Limits of Reason And Measure;
Only Limited By iMaGiNaTion And Creativity
We Fail to Exercise And Bring to Fruition; Smiles, 'ALL Souls Matter'...
Music Relates Best What Some Folks Have Yet to Experience in Life as Reality is Music at Core;
This is Just Part of a 'SonG oF mY SoUL' As the 46,000 Words below is Just Dust of 8.2 Million Words
in 82 Months; Definitely fits what it takes to Master An Art Well Over 10,000 Hours To Get to Heaven's Flow..
https://katiemiafrederick.com/2020/06/25/love-exists-in-truth-in-light-2020/
Last edited by aghogday on 28 Jun 2020, 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
28 Jun 2020, 9:56 pm
aghogday is that you? Nice to meet you.
------------jimmy m.
Last edited by jimmy m on 28 Jun 2020, 9:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
28 Jun 2020, 9:57 pm
jimmy m wrote:
aghogday is that you? Nice to meet you.
[img]aghogday[/img]
[img]aghogday[/img]
Thank You, Yes It is; Otherwise
Known as Fred; Nice to meet you too..
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