White privilege isn't real - Jordan Peterson

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You are one of the most presumptuous people here.
I posted the video to understand the concept better.

I also said I believe there is a mindset of 'white privilege' is certain situations.
I gave the example of the southern states of America.

I have a problem with SJWs claiming it is universal.
White privilege isn't ubiquitous, here in Australia.

As I have said, there are instances where the indigenous people of Australia have advantages that non-indigenous people don't.
There is also the situation where people are 'clambering' to qualify as having aboriginality.
That speaks volumes, to me.

It's actually not far, Indo-European speakers entered India around 1200BC (around the same time the Greeks entered the Balkans and the Hittites entered Anatolia) and introduced caste or varna. For about 1000 years there was intermingling so the original Indo-Europeans became indistinguishable from the locals. Then around 100AD strict endogamy was enforced all over India and castes were rigidified. You started to have a noticeable skin colour gradient between the highest caste and lowest and also between the north and south of India.

The codification of caste applied to all groups not just the Indo-Europeans. The Dravidians also evolved a caste system among themselves. Nobody actually knows why the caste system was introduced in the first place.

It's kinda funny that the ruins of the lost Harappan civilization in that area seem to suggest that the society who built it was surprisingly egalitarian for the time instead. Though of course that could still be just a misinterpretation.

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On the central topic here, I think we can summarize the general common-sense understanding of it this way:

- Universal unconditional "original-sin"-type white privilege: does not exist. If this idea is prevalent somewhere (and I'm not aware that it really is -- again, I'm not American), then it must die.

- Society-wide ingrained privilege-by-default for white people (or equivalent hurdles for "non-white" people) in societies where white people are present in significant numbers: definitely does exist; not universally present, but overwhelmingly so.

- "White people": does not necessarily refer to skin tone itself, but to the perception of European heritage instead. (And European specifically. Also: emphasis on the word "perception".)

It was pretty bizarre once, in Canada, someone asked me if people in Europe treated me poorly for "looking Arab". I didn't say it, but I thought "Wait, what? What on earth are you talking about? I'm white. Lol!" In (southern) Europe, everybody just seemed to assume I was a local -- until I opened my mouth and it became clear I was a foreigner, and that was the moment when some people did start treating me poorly.

On the other hand, Arab ancestry looks completely indistinguishable from the typical European ancestry in my country, so, here, people of Arab ancestry are white. Also, people of Japanese ancestry here are "effectively white" even if they are recognizable, because they inhabit the exact same social layers and spaces associated with "white people" (namely: they're rarely poor).

Last edited by toadsnail on 22 Feb 2021, 2:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

If there is a white privilege problem in the US, is it actually a solve-able problem though? I mean when it comes to jobs for example people have the right to hire whoever they want for a job, and it's not like we can control people's minds. There will always be people who may not have the best judgment, or people who are even scumbags, but is there anything to really solve the issue though, if mind control of the population and no free will, is not an option?

Well, I'll grant you this: that ^ is actually a good question.

There's no good answer for it yet. But any realistic answer will involve artificial interventions that some people won't be happy with. That's inevitable.

Yes I'm old enough to remember Chinese, Arab and Japanese governments happily doing business with South Africa's evil apartheid regime and their people getting "honorary white" status.

If people have to look up what you are trying to explain, you did not do your job.

Frankly, many white folks don’t reap the benefits of “white privilege.”

People who espouse the concept of “white privilege” often hang out in rather narrow circles. They are not too aware of the world around them.

A whole race might have “privilege,” as a collective. In practice, amongst individuals, it’s a gross generalization. Individual people are not collectives.

Jordan Peterson has some really great things to say, especially about taking personal responsibility.. but this speech is not one of them.

Majority privilege? Hmm, it suspiciously overlooks the fact that white people are *Not* the global majority, yet have colonized countries all over the world and set up socio-economic hierarchies based on race that place white people at the top of the food chain. How convenient that he refers to it simply as "majority privilege," in the USA and overlooks the fact that Even In China whiteness is prized - wealthy Chinese people avoid sun exposure like the plague so they can remain "China white," and not have an aesthetic that makes people assume they are poor because they have to work the fields outdoors and that's why their skin is tanned. The Chinese also have business positions in their large corporations called "Face," where they employ white males to be the white "face," of their company at meetings, presentations, negotiations etc because white people are perceived to be "superior," and it Looks Good for a corporation to have a "token white guy," as a sort of figurehead to make the company appear more successful in the business world than it actually is - just due to the marketing perception of a clean cut English speaking white male leading a meeting.

In conclusion: I call BS, Mr. Peterson. Also on the grounds of personal experience as a white presenting male in Canada that benefits from white privilege even in areas where white people are not the majority. Racism fail; shut your mouth.

Have you ever been stopped, frisked, handcuffed, and questioned by the police for no obvious reason?

There's a little bit of something in common there, sure, but I wouldn't go as far as to equate one thing with the other like that. And Japanese immigrants in particular were poor when they arrived here, like most other immigrants. The main thing in Brazil is that the perception of "whiteness" is more like a perception of "non-blackness" instead, and it's secondary to a perception more closely tied to socioeconomic background. Or psychologically tied to it, at least. Having grown up inside this culture myself, though, it's pretty hard for me to define it. You "just know" instinctively whether someone falls under one category or another, and anyone's perception of what category a given person belongs to will actually change depending on the context. A perceptive foreigner, after living here for some time and actively observing these things, would probably find it easier to define than me.

I think there's no better example of what I'm talking about than Machado de Assis (19th-century writer). He's widely regarded as the greatest Brazilian writer ever, he was literally friends with the emperor (yep, Brazil had an "emperor" back then, it's kinda weird), and he literally founded the regulating body that officially defines what counts as standard Brazilian Portuguese. Everyone learns about him in school. Everyone knows his name. But I had no idea he was "half-black" (two of his grandparents were freed slaves) until I read about it on Wikipedia. If you have the right connections, your race just kinda disappears.

I was thinking when I said before that I thought that other races have more privilege in other parts of the world and that it all evens out, to use the police car pull over analogy for example, does white privilege exist everywhere on that?

I'm white but if I were driving in a country with a large black population, like say the Congo for example, would I be more likely to be pulled over compared to a black person, or no?

No, I don't think it does. But the main point really is that "evening it out" doesn't actually mean anything, because what happens in a far away country has typically little to no effect on your life.


The answer is: it depends... It's complicated.

I know a (white) guy for example who was on a business trip to Angola once, and when he was at the airport to take his flight back here, he was stopped by heavily armed men "politely asking him for a monetary contribution to their cause". At the airport. But that's still a legacy of colonialism, in a way. The white person isn't being treated well in that case, but it's because it's assumed that the person is wealthy, not because the person is treated with suspicion or contempt.

Googling this, I immediately found what looks like a well-written article, titled "Angola: Independence happened, but decolonization of minds didn't". I'm sure the small white minority there is still treated better (even by black people) in most cases than the overwhelming black majority.

So... yeah, it's complicated.

Yes I have, Fnord. A few times.

One tiny, I was running, and the cops stopped me. They thought I was in the “wrong” neighborhood. They thought I was there to buy drugs. So they stopped and frisked me and verified where I work.

If I had no ID, I would have been arrested.

This seems kind of strange. If the cops were looking to bust you from buying drugs, wouldn't they logically wait till after you buy them and then try to catch you with them, rather than do it before? But what do I know. My condolences on that happening to you.