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Why do people honestly hate capitalism so much now?

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Dengashinobi
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16 Jan 2023, 4:27 am

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Does it say anything about greedy people paying too low of wages or charging too high of prices for things so families can’t afford to provide the necessities for their kids?

It’s not always about people making poor choices of how to spend their money. Plenty of people work full time and have to choose between shelter or heat or groceries etc.

People who cant afford kids should never have kids in my opinion.There will always be poverty regardless of the economic system....It still does not change the fact that people who cant afford kids shouldnt have kids.Poor people who cant afford babies should not have relations in my opinion.But at the same time the Lord will provide in some way for kids that are born.But not everyone can make a decent living.I dont think the Bible mandates employers pay workers enough to live the American Dream.I dont think price gouging is a sin as long as its not against the law in a given jurisdiction.


I agree with you if one can see that their circumstances are stained and nevertheless decides to bring a life in this world only to share their misfortune, that is uncarrying and irresponsible.



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16 Jan 2023, 9:41 am

Dengashinobi wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Does it say anything about greedy people paying too low of wages or charging too high of prices for things so families can’t afford to provide the necessities for their kids?

It’s not always about people making poor choices of how to spend their money. Plenty of people work full time and have to choose between shelter or heat or groceries etc.

People who cant afford kids should never have kids in my opinion.There will always be poverty regardless of the economic system....It still does not change the fact that people who cant afford kids shouldnt have kids.Poor people who cant afford babies should not have relations in my opinion.But at the same time the Lord will provide in some way for kids that are born.But not everyone can make a decent living.I dont think the Bible mandates employers pay workers enough to live the American Dream.I dont think price gouging is a sin as long as its not against the law in a given jurisdiction.


I agree with you if one can see that their circumstances are stained and nevertheless decides to bring a life in this world only to share their misfortune, that is uncarrying and irresponsible.


I also agree. When I was a freshman in high school, my biology class covered overpopulation effects on Earth and how limited our resources are. That was when there were 5.5 billion people. It was at that point that I decided that it would be foolish to bring another generation into this world, money or no money. We are now over 8 billion on the planet. It will only get worse in time without something reversing those numbers. Not having children should be a choice by everyone, rich and poor. But, so few chose to do so. Earth is collectively screwed.

I know my stance is not popular with most people. Any talk about obtaining from sex pretty much ruins what image people have of you being normal. It is what I feel is the right thing to do.



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16 Jan 2023, 9:56 am

I hope when capitalism collapses it drags every other system down with it.



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16 Jan 2023, 10:39 am

The_Walrus wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:

We have built At Least enough housing to cover our population growth. At LEAST.

https://www.ubcm.ca/sites/default/files ... 0Paper.pdf

By one of Andy Yan's estimates I read a couple years back, during some recent years we actually built, iirc, 26% more units of housing than were required to house population growth.. yet people are living in tents, forests, cars etc while construction workers are building full tilt - or were until the slight downturn and developers have started to cancel entire projects.

The problem is that housing is not becoming homes. They're owned by offshore investors who see them as little more than a safety deposit box to store wealth in that the CCP can't easily take from them. Others are Airbnb's vs. rental housing stock. Towers go up, lights stay off.. foreign investors spending $1-5M+/condo just to own it and no one lives there. Entire neighbourhoods are quite dark at night.. cafes and shops close because there are no people there, only empty condos.

But we've constructed enough housing to provide homes. Suggesting it's a lack of building enough supply is total nonsense. It's that we've built $$$$$$ Monopoly Card properties for wealthy Chinese buyers to buy/sell/trade instead of homes that are both available and affordable for the people here to live in.

Well, for a start, assuming everything you said was completely true, that's where Land Value Tax would come in - it would make property speculation impossible.

But I don't think everything you said was completely true. For example, the vacancy rate in Vancouver is very low. https://doodles.mountainmath.ca/blog/20 ... 21-update/

And that's what you expect in a city with high property prices. Think about it for a second. Why would Chinese billionaires buy large numbers of apartments in Canada (enough to cause homelessness and exploding property prices) and then leave them empty, when they could instead rent them out and make loads of money? You've been telling me that billionaires are extremely greedy... now you're saying that these greedy people who are extremely greedy would just not bother making money when a golden opportunity came along? Come on. That makes no sense.

AirBnB, I will grant you, often has a negative effect on housing prices (i.e. it raises the cost of homes and the cost of rent). That's why you need to build enough to keep up with all demand, including AirBnB. And if the price of housing is going up, then it means supply is not keeping up with demand and you need to be building more.

I'd advise watching "Oh the Urbanity!" on YouTube. They're a Canadian couple based in Ottowa who make informative videos about the Canadian housing market and public transport.


Because in Chinese investment culture a new never lived in home is worth more money than a "used," lived in home. They buy up several condos at a time, an entire floor or whatever, and just leave them sit empty to appreciate over time while storing their $ out of China where the CCP can't easily take it.

Chinese also have an investment culture of buying additional homes as investments vs. other vehicles like stocks or bonds or gic's or etfs etc - basically, only real estate. And since there are so many Chinese people with extra money to invest, they've pumped it into real estate all over the world. It's just that Vancouver happens to be one of the darling cities that they were really able to pump money into with little oversight - by some estimates $5B/year.

OK - I don’t accept your logic here at all because it assumes all these Chinese billionaires are forgoing rental income, which doesn’t seem credible.

But even if we accept your logic - why is the vacancy rate in Vancouver so low?

Objectively, your beliefs are incorrect. But even if they were correct - just tax land.
Quote:
Airbnb: It is physically impossible to build enough housing fast enough to keep up with the empty condos & mansions required by Chinese investors AND have enough stock for tourists who want to come here during the Summer months AND somehow magically also have homes for local people to live in. Space/land constraints, time/materials/labour constraints etc.

This is not true. Vancouver has a highly regulated construction market. Cities with more liberal markets are not experiencing the same issues. Make it legal to build housing and you’ll start to build enough. Until you do, you’re siding with the people you claim to oppose and condemning yourself to high housing costs.

Some rent their places row avoid empty home tax, but many are empty to avoid renters still.

I hwy do you mean why is the vacancy rate so low ? :? Basic math. Homes unavailable for rent, high demand. What’s confusing about that?

What do you mean just tax land ?? Every property owner pays property tax, some a Lot as commercial property taxes are based on latent value - the highest and best use for the property zoning, which is nuts but intended to encourage redevelopment.

Every city has building regulations. If no homes were empty or Airbnb we wouldn’t need ever more basic homes. Rich people won’t allow apartments to be built in their neighbourhoods - that’s who controls that; not the city. He who holds the gold makes the rules.


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Nades
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16 Jan 2023, 10:40 am

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
I hope when capitalism collapses it drags every other system down with it.


You want anarchy?



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16 Jan 2023, 11:39 am

Nades wrote:
DeathFlowerKing wrote:
I hope when capitalism collapses it drags every other system down with it.


You want anarchy?

Wouldn't anarchy technically Be a system, though? :?


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16 Jan 2023, 11:57 am

I want NOTHING!! ! :twisted:



goldfish21
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16 Jan 2023, 12:21 pm

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
I want NOTHING!! ! :twisted:

Enlightened Buddhist? 8)


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17 Jan 2023, 8:42 pm

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
I want NOTHING!! ! :twisted:

You must be fun to shop for at Christmas :D


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Highlander852456
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17 Jan 2023, 11:40 pm

US is by far one of the richest countries in the world in terms of resources.... yet in statistics its very low.

Noam Chomskey calls out fall of US democracy for some time.

Capitalism has many flavors, but let us remember, that US has gold, oil, uranium, unimaginable landmass of fertile land, incredible amount of woodland, and massive amount of other metals and minerals. It has a huge river system that allows for good regulation of and watering of landmass.
US has gas deposits and pretty much everything it needs. It has a huge population, but its becoming comparably more poor to other countries, despite having Alaska with probably infinite more oil deposites that are undiscovered.

US also has two oceans that allow it to reach the world with ships. It was saved from perils of being devasted by wwI and wwII. Albeit being fully present in both conflicts, US has never suffered invasion of its land and complete destruction comparable to Soviet Union.

US was industrial powerhouse for good portion of 20s century, but suffered a great depression that caused state wide unemployment and famine in some regions that cost lives.

US has pretty much threatened or invaded every weaker nation that showed self determination or opposition to US geopolitical goals usually under false pretends.
US still threatens Iran and operated in Syria to depose of Assad, and have invaded or altered regimes in multiple countries in central or south America.

People in US still suffer from malnutrition and lack of education.
Education system of US is comparably on lower end to other more developed nations.
Healthcare system has been major thorn and contention and has been many times ridiculed in US for its money based policies that let people who have no money simply die.

Recently police in US invaded a house with intend to raid a drug gang and killed a person. It repeated thereafter and the media coverage was clearly against police.

India one of the largest capitalist countries in the world has major poverty problem and violance problem.
There is a huge trafficing business with underaged children and major problem with economical inequality where people live under the line of poverty while a smaller fraction of the nation enjoys some perks of capitalism not to mention culture imposed caste system.
Many of the major figures running the nations government are guilty of serious crimes.
Many people in India cannot afford housing food and many cities lack any infrastructure.
Many people live in greater poverty than medieval villagers in Europe 500 years ago.

Republic of Haiti is capitalist and one of the poorest regions of the Carribean.
People have problems with water shortages and basic infrastructure.
During hurrican season the hurricanes destroyed their housing as it was cheap sheds made of wood that were basically blown away and they had no means of building thereafter without sever and costly help from international capital.

Communist China by contrast to India has managed to built a formidable economy that basically makes everything people in US use.
While India scam callers are trying to rip of old US citizens, China is supplying the whole world with commodities and has technological advanced to building a space station in the orbit.



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18 Jan 2023, 3:05 am

Highlander852456 wrote:
US is by far one of the richest countries in the world in terms of resources.... yet in statistics its very low.

Noam Chomskey calls out fall of US democracy for some time.

Capitalism has many flavors, but let us remember, that US has gold, oil, uranium, unimaginable landmass of fertile land, incredible amount of woodland, and massive amount of other metals and minerals. It has a huge river system that allows for good regulation of and watering of landmass.
US has gas deposits and pretty much everything it needs. It has a huge population, but its becoming comparably more poor to other countries, despite having Alaska with probably infinite more oil deposites that are undiscovered.

US also has two oceans that allow it to reach the world with ships. It was saved from perils of being devasted by wwI and wwII. Albeit being fully present in both conflicts, US has never suffered invasion of its land and complete destruction comparable to Soviet Union.

US was industrial powerhouse for good portion of 20s century, but suffered a great depression that caused state wide unemployment and famine in some regions that cost lives.

US has pretty much threatened or invaded every weaker nation that showed self determination or opposition to US geopolitical goals usually under false pretends.
US still threatens Iran and operated in Syria to depose of Assad, and have invaded or altered regimes in multiple countries in central or south America.

People in US still suffer from malnutrition and lack of education.
Education system of US is comparably on lower end to other more developed nations.
Healthcare system has been major thorn and contention and has been many times ridiculed in US for its money based policies that let people who have no money simply die.

Recently police in US invaded a house with intend to raid a drug gang and killed a person. It repeated thereafter and the media coverage was clearly against police.

India one of the largest capitalist countries in the world has major poverty problem and violance problem.
There is a huge trafficing business with underaged children and major problem with economical inequality where people live under the line of poverty while a smaller fraction of the nation enjoys some perks of capitalism not to mention culture imposed caste system.
Many of the major figures running the nations government are guilty of serious crimes.
Many people in India cannot afford housing food and many cities lack any infrastructure.
Many people live in greater poverty than medieval villagers in Europe 500 years ago.

Republic of Haiti is capitalist and one of the poorest regions of the Carribean.
People have problems with water shortages and basic infrastructure.
During hurrican season the hurricanes destroyed their housing as it was cheap sheds made of wood that were basically blown away and they had no means of building thereafter without sever and costly help from international capital.

Communist China by contrast to India has managed to built a formidable economy that basically makes everything people in US use.
While India scam callers are trying to rip of old US citizens, China is supplying the whole world with commodities and has technological advanced to building a space station in the orbit.


The US is the biggest economy in the world. To this day people all arround the world are emigrating to the US. Nobody dreams of going to China.

China is not Communist. China is state controlled capitalism, a.k.a Fascist.

Do you really think that Slovakia was better during communism than it is now under capitalism?



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18 Jan 2023, 5:04 am

Dengashinobi wrote:
The US is the biggest economy in the world. To this day people all arround the world are emigrating to the US. Nobody dreams of going to China.

China is not Communist. China is state controlled capitalism, a.k.a Fascist.

Do you really think that Slovakia was better during communism than it is now under capitalism?


US is the biggest economy in the world. Which is why its obviously a problem that it has poverty despite overproduction and people have to fight for wage just to get by. That was also my point. Large economy does not make for happiest people is a problem.

You are right people are emigrating to US. Which is a another resource US dealt with poorly.
You are wrong that nobody dreams to going to China.
China does provide job opportunities, but China has enough work force and has to keep employing their own people first.

You are right that China is state controlled capitalism, but its centralized and it seems to work.
I think lifting 100s of millions people out of poverty and speed running them through industrial age into digital age is pretty impressive. Back when I was young people in China had bicycles. Nowdays they are building speed trains, largest metros in the world and riding SUVs on massive highways.
I think they managed this in several decades of solid work.

US economy is in decline in many ways. I tend to view countries in larger time context than say immediate GDP or something nonsense number.

More importantly China is headed by Communist party and they are becoming more efficient and capitalism than US.
Basically half the s**t people have at home in most countries in the world is made in China. That has been true for years. China owns US debt. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/i ... w-much.asp

As for Slovakia I think Slovakia was doing fine during Communism namely as it was called Czechoslovakia and was much larger and fast growing economy. Unfortunately Soviet Union was backwards and stale in progressing in some major policies that led to its down fall.
Slovakia during this time was doing much better economically than shortly after war when it was decimated by war.
It was also economically growing through the decades pretty steeply.
Its not possible for me to say they were better off.
Socialist style economy is not comparable enough to take macroeconomic measures that are comparable.
Simply put socialism is different from capitalism so most economical measures where they compare economies is poppycock.



Last edited by Cornflake on 18 Jan 2023, 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.: Fixed broken quote tags

Dengashinobi
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18 Jan 2023, 5:46 am

Highlander852456 wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
Highlander852456 wrote:

The US is the biggest economy in the world. To this day people all arround the world are emigrating to the US. Nobody dreams of going to China.

China is not Communist. China is state controlled capitalism, a.k.a Fascist.

Do you really think that Slovakia was better during communism than it is now under capitalism?


US is the biggest economy in the world. Which is why its obviously a problem that it has poverty despite overproduction and people have to fight for wage just to get by. That was also my point. Large economy does not make for happiest people is a problem.

You are right people are emigrating to US. Which is a another resource US dealt with poorly.
You are wrong that nobody dreams to going to China.
China does provide job opportunities, but China has enough work force and has to keep employing their own people first.

You are right that China is state controlled capitalism, but its centralized and it seems to work.
I think lifting 100s of millions people out of poverty and speed running them through industrial age into digital age is pretty impressive. Back when I was young people in China had bicycles. Nowdays they are building speed trains, largest metros in the world and riding SUVs on massive highways.
I think they managed this in several decades of solid work.

US economy is in decline in many ways. I tend to view countries in larger time context than say immediate GDP or something nonsense number.

More importantly China is headed by Communist party and they are becoming more efficient and capitalism than US.
Basically half the s**t people have at home in most countries in the world is made in China. That has been true for years. China owns US debt. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/i ... w-much.asp

As for Slovakia I think Slovakia was doing fine during Communism namely as it was called Czechoslovakia and was much larger and fast growing economy. Unfortunately Soviet Union was backwards and stale in progressing in some major policies that led to its down fall.
Slovakia during this time was doing much better economically than shortly after war when it was decimated by war.
It was also economically growing through the decades pretty steeply.
Its not possible for me to say they were better off.
Socialist style economy is not comparable enough to take macroeconomic measures that are comparable.
Simply put socialism is different from capitalism so most economical measures where they compare economies is poppycock.


You must come from a really privileged family to say that Communism wasn't that bad. It crushedcl poeples bones in your country. What are you talking about?



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18 Jan 2023, 11:01 am

Highlander852456 wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
Highlander852456 wrote:

The US is the biggest economy in the world. To this day people all arround the world are emigrating to the US. Nobody dreams of going to China.

China is not Communist. China is state controlled capitalism, a.k.a Fascist.

Do you really think that Slovakia was better during communism than it is now under capitalism?


US is the biggest economy in the world. Which is why its obviously a problem that it has poverty despite overproduction and people have to fight for wage just to get by. That was also my point. Large economy does not make for happiest people is a problem.

You are right people are emigrating to US. Which is a another resource US dealt with poorly.
You are wrong that nobody dreams to going to China.
China does provide job opportunities, but China has enough work force and has to keep employing their own people first.

You are right that China is state controlled capitalism, but its centralized and it seems to work.
I think lifting 100s of millions people out of poverty and speed running them through industrial age into digital age is pretty impressive. Back when I was young people in China had bicycles. Nowdays they are building speed trains, largest metros in the world and riding SUVs on massive highways.
I think they managed this in several decades of solid work.

US economy is in decline in many ways. I tend to view countries in larger time context than say immediate GDP or something nonsense number.

More importantly China is headed by Communist party and they are becoming more efficient and capitalism than US.
Basically half the s**t people have at home in most countries in the world is made in China. That has been true for years. China owns US debt. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/i ... w-much.asp

As for Slovakia I think Slovakia was doing fine during Communism namely as it was called Czechoslovakia and was much larger and fast growing economy. Unfortunately Soviet Union was backwards and stale in progressing in some major policies that led to its down fall.
Slovakia during this time was doing much better economically than shortly after war when it was decimated by war.
It was also economically growing through the decades pretty steeply.
Its not possible for me to say they were better off.
Socialist style economy is not comparable enough to take macroeconomic measures that are comparable.
Simply put socialism is different from capitalism so most economical measures where they compare economies is poppycock.

Until about a month ago one part of China or another has been under strict lockdowns for three years. How well could their economy have been doing under those circumstances?

Now that they are opening up there is an understandable period of turmoil will slow down their economy.


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Dengashinobi
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18 Jan 2023, 12:04 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Highlander852456 wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
Highlander852456 wrote:


Until about a month ago one part of China or another has been under strict lockdowns for three years. How well could their economy have been doing under those circumstances?

Now that they are opening up there is an understandable period of turmoil will slow down their economy.


China also experienced a severe energy crisis last year. Entire regions had blackout for weeks. The global recession isn't helping either. China is in a very fragile situation right now. China has two big problems: First it has no energy resources. Second it relies on imports for food. It has also demographic issues. While the US scores high in all of these.



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18 Jan 2023, 4:49 pm

Because it's shortcomings are more relevant to our daily lives than the shortcomings of say feudalism.


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