Is Sexual Orientation Actively Changable?

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This is ridiculous. It's like saying you're you first,
and human second. One is what they is. For however
long they is.

Uh, ya, and rape is a higher cost then most members of Western society daily face.

So you say. Those who convert, I've
found, tend to do so more than once.

It's kinda like the theory some have
about betrayal in relationships, and
traitors.

Last edited by calandale on 14 Aug 2007, 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Frankly, for me there are a lot of things that
seem worse. Again, DON'T presume that everyone
has your value set.

True, as the Bible says, the "old nature" / "old man". That's because Christ has given me a new nature, which I will be violating if/when I don't live morally purely. So, the Christian has two natures to wrestle with, as Paul spoke of having within himself, due to his belief in and belonging to Christ.

Doesn't it strike you as odd that this perfect god
made things one way, didn't like the direction that
they went in - destroyed the work (more or less) -
STILL didn't like what was happening, so changed ALL
of the rules - and has promised he's going to burn
the whole thing down, since he loves it so much?

Sounds like the power mad and VERY incapable thing
which I am rather used to. But I do wonder at the gullibility
of those who believe it's lies.

About switching, I don't think so, one person can possibly "switch" to other orientation apparently, but I think it would be to bisexuality or pansexuality only, but never from straight to gay or from gay to straight, at least I see it that way. Once you are straight you will never stop being attracted to women even if you "learn" or "switch" an attraction for other men, that would be the same with gay people.

What about if one incorporates an emotional shift into the equation? Like, "I generally feel more comfortable around guys". A lot of gay men had bad or no associations with their fathers growing up -- such men, whether or not they turn gay, often pursue male bonding to various extremes -- subconsciously trying to make up for lost time with their dads, and/or craving the male approval they never got while growing up.

I think interpersonal emotions/attachments are a major factor in gay relationships. Like Sopho says, it's not ALL about the sex.

So you don't believe extreme behavior therapy, say
as in clockwork orange, could work - that people can't
be conditioned to hate?

About conversion therapy, which are conservative-christian based
According to what I have read, a lot of psychiatrists agree that those therapies never work and just do damage to gay people.

Anyhow, sounds like brain washing, yeah they may end up believing that they are "cured", but I doubt the attraction is really gone.

Maybe you are talking about some other kind of therapy?
Conditionted to hate?
You mean misogynysm?
I don't think this is related to orientation
I could say that most misogynyst are straight, that's a hunch of course, don't have a real source for that, but is very likely.

I'm not even gay second. I'm not technically gay at all.
And it would be violating PART of who they are, if they married someone of a different sex.


F*cking hell, I'm not implying that. You were talking earlier about how a prostitute could be gay and sleep with men etc, that's why I'm talking about the whole being with a man when you want to be with a woman thing. You voting against gay marriage doesn't force me to marry a man no, but it does prevent me from marrying the person I would want to be with.

well, I don't discard the possibility of being something gained from the environment during early childhood, it could be like that as well, lots of them are born that way, but there might be cases when it is gained after they are born. Either way, if that attraction is exclusive, very likely it will be gone, let's just say it's a guy, that person will "learn" to like women, if it is forced, but the physical attraction will still be there, at least that was what I read. There is scientific evidence I read that gay people cannot change their attraction, so therapies to change them doesn't seem to really work. And even if it did, which is very unlikely, it would be very wrong to do that anyway. Forcing someone to change something because is not considered a "normal" thing or "inmoral" is still discrimination.

Do you think is right to force a left handed person to be right handed, I think it's possible to change that, but do you see a real reason to do it?

What point are you making about the significance of it? She's attracted to women. So she's gay. And?



The behaviour is already legalised, idiot. It's no longer illegal to have gay sex. I'm arguing gay marriage should then be legalised because there's no decent reason not to. If I'm only attracted to women, but can only marry a man, that means I either marry someone I don't want to be with, or I can't marry at all. Does that not seem wrong to you at all? Can you really not get it through your brain that that might piss a few people off?

I agree. I think if anyone can turn straight -> gay or the other way round, they were never gay/straight to begin with, they were bi/pansexual. But I don't know this 100%, I just doubt it very much that someone could do that.

It's not all about the sex in the same way that heterosexual relationships aren't. That doesn't then mean that I can just make myself attracted to a friend of a different sex or whatever. That's still different. There have been plenty of guys I've got on well with and, if I liked men, I could have ended up with them. But I didn't.

Well, we're all guilty of seeing the God of the Bible through the lens of our own humanity, and human emotional profiles. Indeed, God had to be somewhat humanized in His Biblical portrayals, just so that we'd have something we could get our minds around. I mean, let's face it, if this God is truly infinite in every sense and direction that the Bible claims, we're talking about a fundamentally different being indeed -- an alien, such that we could never hope to successfully relate with if He didn't come down to our level of communication. We're like two-year-olds to Him -- we can relate with him, but only in our own small ways.

I guess you'd see a salvation-from-Hell as something God owes us?
See, you give God no Godly rights; He must live to serve humans, if I am correctly interpreting your judgments of when He hasn't served them. That's where our opinions of Him split: I think He's got rights and privileges which are rightfully greater than ours as mere humans. If you accidentally step on an ant, do you hold a funeral? It's the human-centeredness that I don't buy into -- that God should wait on us hand and foot. I just try to look outside of my humanity, and attempt a more objective outlook. For instance, if God is in fact the central focus of everything that He has made, then it makes sense that we cannot morally chastize Him for taking Godly liberties. This makes perfect logical sense to me -- I'm not sure that you agree though.