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Evolution vs. Creation- serious discussion only please

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Sand
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07 Aug 2010, 4:14 am

01001011 wrote:
Another thing regarding dependence of mind to note is that questions like "Is 1+1=2 6000000 years ago?" is that the question is counter-factual. i.e. the statement '1+1=2' does not exist 6000000 years ago.


Abstract systems like mathematics do not derive their truth from input data.



iamnotaparakeet
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07 Aug 2010, 9:08 am

Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
What is the meaning of absolute truth in the absence of humans?


That the universe would go on without us, since reality is far larger than our minds.


I'll go along with that assumption but it has nothing to do with absolute truth.


Absolute truth has to do with the nature of reality being independent of ourselves. "Relative truth" contrarily assumes that "truth" is whatever we make it.


So how is truth independent upon ourselves available to us?


Good morning, wait, independent upon ourselves? Are you using Google Translate?



Sand
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07 Aug 2010, 10:47 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
What is the meaning of absolute truth in the absence of humans?


That the universe would go on without us, since reality is far larger than our minds.


I'll go along with that assumption but it has nothing to do with absolute truth.


Absolute truth has to do with the nature of reality being independent of ourselves. "Relative truth" contrarily assumes that "truth" is whatever we make it.


So how is truth independent upon ourselves available to us?


Good morning, wait, independent upon ourselves? Are you using Google Translate?


Goodbye, parakeet. Go talk with your birds.



Vexcalibur
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07 Aug 2010, 11:16 am

01001011 wrote:
Another thing regarding dependence of mind to note is that questions like "Is 1+1=2 6000000 years ago?" is that the question is counter-factual. i.e. the statement '1+1=2' does not exist 6000000 years ago.
The statement is merely notation. What the statement means is an absolute truth, and a rather trivial one as well. Most absolute truths are like that. It is an axiom of math for that reason.


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iamnotaparakeet
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07 Aug 2010, 11:41 am

Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
What is the meaning of absolute truth in the absence of humans?


That the universe would go on without us, since reality is far larger than our minds.


I'll go along with that assumption but it has nothing to do with absolute truth.


Absolute truth has to do with the nature of reality being independent of ourselves. "Relative truth" contrarily assumes that "truth" is whatever we make it.


So how is truth independent upon ourselves available to us?


Good morning, wait, independent upon ourselves? Are you using Google Translate?


Goodbye, parakeet. Go talk with your birds.


They said, "wee-ough tserwii wheet". However, the phrase that I said to you is "independent of ourselves", which could also be stated as "independent from ourselves". Truth independent of ourselves is available by the scientific method, in terms of the ordering of the physical universe, such would exist whether we exist or not. However, you would seem to think that such is not knowable with certainty or otherwise you have some sort of dogma regarding the evolution of knowledge or some random thing of that sort which prevents you from thinking about this with any coherency.