I am a Jew but i am not Zionist

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No -.- we don't need to create more artifical states =.= Besides, which state /country would be generous enough give us some of their terrain? <.<

Considering the huge spectrum of almost fanatically held opinions in this site I doubt I would be particularly comfortable living in a sequestered social ambiance of intense intellectual conflict.

That would be a massively dysfunctional society.

Don't forget the suicide bombers wearing explosive cowboy hats.

Nothing like good old fashoned revisionist history . . .

Please do not insult Muslims in this thread, because for many Years Jews were saved by Muslims from such Persecutions as the Spanish Inquisition.

God bless Israel!

Stop talking Zionist rubbish!! ! Because of Zionism, Jews are suffering in countries like Syria which imposes laws on us Jews simular to those of the Nazis and the 1412 Valladolid Ordinances. If Zionism carries on this could happen again to us Jews.




If You love us Jews, Support Palestine not Israel, Judaism is not Zionism!! !! !

I was just being ridiculous. It wasn't my intention to insult Muslims because your basic point is correct.

Some of the best times in Jewish history occurred when the Jews were living under enlightened Muslim governments who respected the religious freedoms of Christians and Jews.

That's what makes the present hostility between Jews and Muslims so tragic.

...And because Jews were Jews, they suffered and were murdered by the millions in the Holocaust.
Your solution would have apparently been that they stop being Jews. Rather than that Nazis stop hating Jews.

And stop saying offensive lies like "I'm Jewish" in your opening post. You're not Jewish if you hate Israel.
Pro-Israel Gentiles (and I know plenty) are more Jewish than you are.

And your authority to define who is a Jew comes from...?

A guy from Ghana once pointed out that one of the great strengths of the Jewish tradition is their ability to hold vastly different opinions and still be Jews.

Why would I need any authority in order to see and state the obvious?
If you hate Israel and want to see it destroyed, you're not a Jew in any real sense.
Just like if you hate all the Muslim countries and want them destroyed, you can hardly be Muslim.

Take your "authority" idiocy and shove it. Thanks.

That's true. What about all those Christian Jews? Oh ya, I forgot, belief in the Messiah is when Jewry disowns its Jews, and explicitly says Messianic Jews are not Jews.

Rubbish i am a proud Jew, Judaism is different to Zionism, Zionism is Political, Judaism is religious.

I am not anti Semitic. i am Jewish! Anti Zionism is not Anti Semitism.

Which one of those has to do with the real world? By "religious", do you mean it is mystical/spiritual only, and has no real-world implications? My religion has real-world implications, as all truths do.



C'mon, don't start that false dichotomy again... By real-world implication, anti-Zionism leads to the murder and brutal oppression of the Jews by the world's countries who don't like them, aka: all countries except Israel. Willingly sending Jews out of Israel and into places where they are brutally oppressed and murdered is anti-Semitism!! ! And they've been brutally oppressed and murdered all over the world, so Israel is the only safe haven.


And it's a tiny safe haven at that!

It is the Other way round Zionism, leads to oppression. because of Zionism Syria is oppressing its Jews, Syria restriicted the Jews to Ghettos, Jews were forbidden to own Property, There bank accounts were frozen, Jews are forbidden to own Telephones, Cars and Radios, Jewish Prayer books are censored, and Jews are forbidden to studying subjects such as electronics and Mechanics. these laws were very Simular to The Valladolid Laws, Imposed in Spanish kingdoms of Aragon and Castile By St Vincent Ferrer, Converso Pablo De Santa Maria and the Kings and queens of Aragon and Castile. Under these laws, the Jews were ordered to:

1) Live by themselves in enclosed Juderias;
2) Banned from practicing medicine, surgery, or chemistry;
3) Banned from selling commodities such as bread, wine, flour, meat, etc.;
4) Banned from engaging in handicrafts or trades of any kind;
5) Forbidden to hire Christian servants, farm hands, lamplighters, or gravediggers;
6) Banned from eating drinking, bathing, holding intimate conversation with, visiting, or giving presents to Christians;
7) Banned from holding public offices or acting as money-brokers or agents;
8) Christian women, married or unmarried, were forbidden to enter the Juderia either by day or by night;
9) Allowed no self-jurisdiction whatever, nor might they, without royal permission, levy taxes for communal purposes;
10) Forbidden to assume the title of “Don”;
11) Forbidden to carry arms;
12) Forbidden to trim beard or hair;
13) Jewesses were required to wear plain, long garments of coarse material reaching to the feet, and Jews were forbidden to wear garments made of fine material;
14) On pain of loss of property and even of slavery, Jews were forbidden to leave the country, and any grandee or knight who protected or sheltered a fugitive Jew was punished with a fine of 150,000 maravedís for the first offense.

These laws were strictly enforced, and calculated to compel the Jews to embrace Christianity. as a result Jews converted to Catholicism under duress, this was the second wave of Forced conversions of Jews to Catholicism (The First wave of Forced Converts were in 1391 when Pogroms were unleashed across the Iberian Peninsular by a Fanatical Monk)The Jews became Marranos. because Marranos were baptized by Force, they hid there Jewish rites in secret, this eventually lead to the Creation of the Spanish Inquisition in 1478 and the expulsion of Jews who had not converted to Christianity in 1492. It was laws like the ones imposed By Syria on Jews that lead to such horrors as the Spanish Inquisition, if we disbaned Israel, Syria would be more fairer to us, then Jews and Muslims can Live in peace like they did before Zionism, but if we do not Disbaned Israel things will get worse, Muslims would turn on us and eventually, this would lead to Forced Conversions of Jews in Muslim countries like Syria, and the Jews of those countries would Suffer the Same date as the Marranos of Spain and then eventually there would be another Inquisition which is not imposed by Catholics but by Muslims who before Zionism lived in Peace with Muslims like Brothers. If You Love us Jews support Palestine!! !!

Last edited by Laconvivencia on 05 May 2009, 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.