If a girl is raped and pregnant, should she keep the baby?

Post Reply New Topic

Good News Translation again? Wow...

Look, in the original Hebrew, the passage concerning Jephtha could be read as he made an oath to make the first thing he saw a burnt offering or consecrated to the Lord. There is no need to assume he made his daughter a burnt offering. Besides that, the law provides for redemption in those kinds of situations.

I think there is a solution to this abortion paradigm.

It is a shame for the whole of mankind that this question even has to be asked. Of course not. Nobody should be forced to keep any pregnancy.

The reason we have abortion on demand is that most people think that freedom of choice and freedom of will is an inalienable right.

Prenatal testing + selective abortion have nearly wiped out lethal genetic diseases like Tay Sachs, Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy, and Cystic Fibrosis. But what about NONLETHAL genetic disease? Like autism spectral disorders.................... You can bet your bottom dollar that a prenatal test for this condition, combined with abortion on demand, would result in a full blown genocide just like what has happened to people with Down's syndrome.

I support a woman's right to choose whether or not to keep the child she has, but I do NOT support a woman's "right" to choose what kind of child she wants to have.

No, women don't want women to be forced to have to pay to have a probe shoved up their VJ for a medically unnecessary medical procedure based on the premise that they haven't really thought about what pregnancy is and what ending a pregnancy does. It's hard to imagine a more paternalistic requirement or a more paternalistic concept. For a rape victim, it's like raping them over again.

@Plodder: it doesn't matter if it's alive, doesn't matter if it's human. What matters is that no one has a right to force another person to donate any part of their body for any reason.

Well I had one and I never regretted it. If I was still capable of getting pregnant and became pregnant I'd do it again.

To answer the starting question: If she wants to keep the baby, she should keep it. If she doesnt want to keep the baby, she should not keep it.

Anyway i think the discussion is useless, because whatever we decide, its makes no difference in reality. How should a woman be forced to not abort if she wants to. Whenever a woman becomes pregnant, then the doctor has to inform the state, and then two police officers come to escort you 9 months long to stop a possible abort? Or 9 months chained to a bed? ^^

I thinks its useless to discuss something, when the outcome of the discussion has no influence on reality anyway.

Before anyone gets me wrong, i absolutely do not like abortion because of lifestyle (Raping, Risk of mothers life is another opinion for me). But still i have to realize the fact, that a abortion/non abortion discussion exists only in theory as long as we do not jail every pregnant woman from start of her pregnancy. The only thing we can decide in real life as society is if the abortions that are done anyway, are done legally with medical care or illegaly with the help of some "wanna be docs".

And if this are the only two options i can decide in reality anyway, then i decide the option with medical care, instead of letting other people useless get tortured only because of acting against my private opinion. The alternative for me is childish, like putting my hands on my eyes on ears and keep telling me: "Wohoo now that abortion is illegal, and the children are killed in illegal private ordinations instead of hospitals, THATS SUCH A BIG DIFFERENCE! Now i can sleep so much better."

I am very sad about it, because so many kids got killed just because of "not the right time, doesnt fit into my dreamlife..." and other dumb reasons. But to make abortion illegal will not stop any abortion, just change the legal/illegal status.

In my opinion you need a change in bride society itself. As long as we decide to punish women who get pregnant by accident or who choose let their child get adopted, as long will women decide to abort insted of accepting our idiotic punishment. With punishment, i do not mean punishment by law, but by society. For example if a women got pregnant and she would just decie: "Ok, i do not want the child myself, but i dont want to kill it, so i´ll keep it until birth and then let someone adopt it." right now most people would act punishing. "How can you do that? - Do you have no love in you! - To give away your own blood!" and so on... So right now there is a desicion for doing the right thing, but get blamed for it by most other people or doing the wrong thing (abortion) and everyone will be fine with you, because noone will ever know. I think as a soiciety we should work on, that right desicions are being worthied from us. Right now we want people to act in the right way, but its us pushing them to do the wrong thing.

The first two are adjectives that describe abortion the way I see it. The third describes what abortion actually is. Abortion is killing an unborn child. If you don't even realise that, you're deep in denial. That's what abortion actually is. Killing. How can the word killing be out of context on an abortion thread?





Yes, I know. It wasn't me who made the original comparison. It was somebody else. Somebody else was comparing chosing clothes and food for their (already born) children to the act of killing their unborn child. I was merely writing an imaginary conversation down, to illustrate how ludicrous their comparison actually was. The comparison wasn't mine, and like I said, I think it was a very sick comparison to make.

I am sure that loving parents the world over would agree with me that it's sick to compare them chosing food and clothes for their much-loved children to the choice that somebody makes to kill an unborn baby. I was trying to point out that the choice to kill somebody cannot be compared with the choice of what clothes your children are going to wear on any particular day - the former being the huge choice to murder a child you don't want, and the latter being the minor choice to decide about something trivial concerning a child that you love, and do want. Therefore, I think comparing the two things is sick, and I think the person who came up with the comparison is just grasping at random, irrelevant straws to try and justify killing unborn babies.

Well someone more or less tried to do exactly that in this case. Was struck down by the Supreme Court, though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attorney_General_v._X

Well, think about that for a minute... We already do something similar for people who admit they have suicidal thoughts. We lock 'em up and shoot 'em full of drugs. And for the duration, they get "help." Of course, in reality what happens is they figure out what the doctors want to hear, they act like good boys and girls for a day or two, and then eat lead anyway as soon as they're released. Same general idea with people so far gone in drug addiction that they are unable to function when their families/friends step in with an intervention. Or when parents have their kids committed or when married couples have their spouses committed. When parents misbehave, anyone can call the DHS anonymous hotline and have those children removed from their home. Why not do the same for a woman having murderous thoughts about her unborn child?

there is a marked difference here,

in all of those cases we are talking about a persons choices with regards to their own body,

what you are arguing for here is more akin to demanding a family member offering up their body in a body swap with said addict or suicide victim.

The problem for me would be, that i cannot read thoughts, so i do not know, when a women has murderous thoughts about her baby from who´s exist i dannot even know befor the 5th month. (And even then, you can hide it a bit longer if wearing wide cloths and so on.)

Most women do pregnancy tests on private, so the absolute only one person knowing of her pregnancy is herself. So how the hell do you want to tell if someone has murderous thoughts about his child, if you do not even know about the existence of a child? And the problem with the mind reading would still be active.

We are not talking about theory, there are lots of countries where abortion is forbidden. So even if you know, that someone was pregnance, whats practically happening in these countries? Where noone else knows they are aborting it illegally which you cant prevent, when you do not know. And when there are people who know of the pregnancy then its "Oh god, I am so happy about my baby... - Ohno, i just fell down stairs....oh its so terrible..." Abortion have been forbidden long enough in most countries and in many countries it is still forbidden, so we have experience how useful it is. Do you think, a woman who wants to abort their child will run on the streets, jumping around and yell "Abortion, Abortion, Abortion", when she knows, that she has to hide her pregnancy to prevent others from stopping her to abort? It changes nothing but pushing "dying by illegal abortion" on the "Top do die" list. In fact in many poor countries its in the Top 5 list why woman are dying, if you specify the age between 16 and 40 its even the top 3 list. Most of these women who just dont know how to feed another child. And the existing children are also not helped by their mom dying because of illegal abortion because of the existence of an "If i just closed my ears and my eyes i can imagine that reality is not real!"-Law. Ethopia for example... first comes an idiot of pope, preventing them (they are christian) from using condoms which would actually prevent a lots of abortions in poor countries, then the same idiot tells them to suffer in hell for practicing abortion, and the same idiot yells every 2-3 years to gather money for ethiopia because they cant feed their childs and are dying from hunger.

We can discuss broadly about "If we lived in a perfect world...." but its useless if we have centuries and decades experience, about the existing world we are living in. You want reach this women or help any unborn child if you depend on forcing them to think like you do. Because you cant. The only thing to acquire is, that someones pretend to think as you do, and then makes an illegal abortion without medicinal aid. From the aspect that i like to help the child, this is absolutely useless.

You have to start at the point WHY people are aborting and from my opinion there are lots of reasons WE ALL can work on easily as a society and WE ALL are responsible for, if WE decide that we want this children to be living.

Reasons like "I have to work to pay my bills, but I cant work with a baby because around here there is no possibility of baby daycare." which we can change. Or "It was just an accident, i dont want to marry the father, but if i keep the baby everyone in town will be talking about me..." - so we are the everyone, so we can change that and be proud of a mom, being responsible for her child instead of letting her abuse. Also it is WE who make the possibility of an adoption to women who dont want their child nearly impossible, by thinking that a normal woman should have to raise her child herself, and if she does not have the desire to do that then something must be worng with her. WE are responsible for this thoughts and the social pressure this thoughts cause. Also if WE want this children to live, we must feel ourself responsible, for our wantings. Its easy to say: "If you dont keep the baby we´ll lame you, but if you get your kid and not having the money you need to raise it, we´re also blaming you."

And at least the point where i really could puke: The life style abortion how i call it, done because of "not fitting in my dream of life", WE as a society are also responsible for this because WE made this lifestyle society, telling people, that their worth is depending on their status and money income. We are free to build a society in which your status depends on other things. But we decide to admire rich people, even if they are complete as*holes, looking despisingly on the people poor on income, ignoring their other possible qualities.

Women are aborting their babies since 6000 years, because of the same causes and the centuries with the christian church making it illegal hasnt change anything. In my opinion it is time to finally accept the long experienced fact, that to make abortion illegal changes nothing and maybe finally to focus on the causes why women are aborting. and fighting these instead. In the worst case it will be as useless as making abrotion illegal.

And what do you think you're going to do with women who simply don't wish to sacrifice their bodily integrity, their endocrine system, their joints, their overall health possibly permanently and even their life for something that isn't even sentient?

You can talk at women all you want but you can't force them to want their pregnancies.

To those who weren't raped: condom, birth control, Plan B pill
To those who were raped: birth control, Plan B pill

If you don't take the precautions (or in the case of rape victims, the post-cautions as it were) to avoid pregnancy, it is the woman's fault for being pregnant (watch you interpret this as "OMG YOU SAID RAPE IS THE WOMAN'S FAULT!") when there are clearly enough ways to avoid a pregnancy.

These options are much more humane than abortion, because it does not kill life. It prevents conception from occurring.

Sorry to burst your bubble of irresponsibility.

Surely it takes more than one person to be this particular kind of 'irresponsible'. In the case of consensual sex leading to pregnancy, sometimes by the time you find out that your birth control failed is when you're already two weeks late for your period and it's way too late for Plan B to work. If that women is irresponsible there (and I don't agree that she is), then she is only 50% irresponsible.

As for rape, some women might not have access to Plan B, or be too traumatised to access it.