If a girl is raped and pregnant, should she keep the baby?
iBlockhead wrote:
I like how Inuyasha hasn't snarked me or answered to anything I posted. That wasn't cool for AngelRho to PM him saying I am a vicious heterophobe and am too crazy to be reasoned with.
...Heterophobe? Oh poor heterosexuals. They are oppressed everyday and often forced into suicide because homosexuals bully them for their sexual orie....
....Oh.
ComradeKael wrote:
Well. If you're against cells being killed. Then I hope you never masturbate. Ever. Because using your logic you are a mass murderer every time you masturbate and ejaculate.
You really need to stop with the false equivalencies, sperm cells, like skin cells are entirely my genetic code, as a multi-celled organism there are cells that die all the time. The difference here is that the child's DNA is not an exact match of either parent, the child's DNA is unique to that child.
ComradeKael wrote:
You also avoided my question. Are you for or against same-sex couples being able to adopt? And are you really going to justify forcing a woman to keep a rape child against her will by proposing conjecture which involves a woman raping a man? It is possible but also extremely rare as far as I am aware. If this man was raped and got the other woman pregnant. Why on /Earth/ would he want to keep the child? Why would he want anything to do with this woman? The man has the choice to walk away and avoid this woman at all cost if she does become pregnant. A pregnant woman who has been raped does not have the ability to "walk away" from the situation without an unwanted child being forced upon her - Unless abortion is employed.
I think that if a same-sex couple wants to adopt and if it isn't going to be an abusive environment (heterosexuals and homosexuals both can potentially be abusive), then yeah I see no problem with it.
As far as a male rape victim, would I want my son or daughter in the hands of a rapist, hell no! This idea of the man being able to wak away from their kid like that is quite frankly irresponsible. I just think the woman in the case of her being the rapist should not be allowed to have custody of the child when he or she is born.
Inuyasha wrote:
ComradeKael wrote:
Well. If you're against cells being killed. Then I hope you never masturbate. Ever. Because using your logic you are a mass murderer every time you masturbate and ejaculate.
You really need to stop with the false equivalencies, sperm cells, like skin cells are entirely my genetic code, as a multi-celled organism there are cells that die all the time. The difference here is that the child's DNA is not an exact match of either parent, the child's DNA is unique to that child.
ComradeKael wrote:
You also avoided my question. Are you for or against same-sex couples being able to adopt? And are you really going to justify forcing a woman to keep a rape child against her will by proposing conjecture which involves a woman raping a man? It is possible but also extremely rare as far as I am aware. If this man was raped and got the other woman pregnant. Why on /Earth/ would he want to keep the child? Why would he want anything to do with this woman? The man has the choice to walk away and avoid this woman at all cost if she does become pregnant. A pregnant woman who has been raped does not have the ability to "walk away" from the situation without an unwanted child being forced upon her - Unless abortion is employed.
I think that if a same-sex couple wants to adopt and if it isn't going to be an abusive environment (heterosexuals and homosexuals both can potentially be abusive), then yeah I see no problem with it.
As far as a male rape victim, would I want my son or daughter in the hands of a rapist, hell no! This idea of the man being able to wak away from their kid like that is quite frankly irresponsible. I just think the woman in the case of her being the rapist should not be allowed to have custody of the child when he or she is born.
So who exactly is stopping the male from filing for custody?
Inuyasha wrote:
ComradeKael wrote:
So who exactly is stopping the male from filing for custody?
Generally courts will side with women in a custody case, even if the woman is a sexual predator.
....No. I know a woman who lost her child simply because she had Severe Depression and had tried to kill herself in the past. This is just completely wrong.
Inuyasha wrote:
Hell I would say the baby should have a say in this, but then again they aren't being allowed to voice their opinion on the issue are they.
I don't think anyone is not allowing them to voice their opinions. If they could voice an opinion then we would be able to take it into consideration, but this isn't possible. All we can do is speculate as to any experience of conscious thought it might have.
So then, you could say we have to protect those who can't advocate for themselves. But then we hit up against the woman again and her right to advocate for herself and any possible offspring.
AspieRogue wrote:
Prenatal testing + selective abortion have nearly wiped out lethal genetic diseases like Tay Sachs, Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy, and Cystic Fibrosis. But what about NONLETHAL genetic disease? Like autism spectral disorders.................... You can bet your bottom dollar that a prenatal test for this condition, combined with abortion on demand, would result in a full blown genocide just like what has happened to people with Down's syndrome.
I support a woman's right to choose whether or not to keep the child she has, but I do NOT support a woman's "right" to choose what kind of child she wants to have.
I support a woman's right to choose whether or not to keep the child she has, but I do NOT support a woman's "right" to choose what kind of child she wants to have.
What is it, 70%-80% of children screened for Down's Syndrome in the UK get aborted if it is positive? Since a genetic screen is overwhelmingly used to consider an abortion, that means people who get the screen don't always abort if there is a hit (which seems silly to me, but whatever). There are no exceptions during a genocide. People committing the genocide don't just spare people out of the goodness of their heart or mercy. Everyone dies. So by that observation, this isn't even close to a genocide. The term 'genocide' is used mostly by anti-neurodiversity 'Aspie supremacists' who think NTs are always out to get them, and it's scaremongering.
I'm sure you can think of a way that genetic screens can be widely distributed, because I cannot. It is so blatant that the point of the test is to commit an abortion no one in our government is even going to touch it. I am ignorant about the availability of genetic screens through private insurance, which could be really embarrassing on my part though, but I'll live with it. There is growing literature and advocacy of what autism is in most countries (there is a story in Grinker's book Unstrange Minds about a South African witch doctor noting the symptoms and sending the child and its parents to a doctor to get diagnosed), and more structures are being set up to help children with autism, and so according to my position, there would a lean to the position that an abortion is less likely to be considered. This whole genocide thing is sheer nonsense, and I told you it's just as laughable as believing that Maafa-21 video about the extermination of blacks through abortion in America.
Inuyasha wrote:
What if the woman is the rapist and she gets pregnent, does she still have a say over what happens to the kid or should the rape victim be the one that decides?
A rapist should never have custody over a child once it's born, but even death row inmates cannot be compelled to donate parts of their body to other people; even a female rapist should be compelled bu the state to donate her body to a zef if she doesn't want to.
MarketAndChurch
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androbot2084 wrote:
Actually the official religious right position is that a rapist is required to make a marriage proposal to the victim if the victim is unmarried but if the victim is married the rapist must be executed. If the rapist gets married he can never be granted a divorce.
At the onset: The bible alternates between telling reality as it is, and inferring sometimes overtly, sometimes with great subtlety, how it ought to be.
It was necessary in the ancient near east to make men accountable for their actions. Woman needed to be married off, it was a different social arrangement and she needed children to have worth in society because that then ties her back to her husbands family if anything ever happened to him in battle.
If she chooses to marry the man who raped her, he is never allowed to divorce, and is stuck with her for life. No where else in the world do they not only offer the above mentioned to the raped girl, but, no where else in the world was a raped woman's dignity and worth FULLY restored following a rape. A woman obviously never chooses to get raped, but what is also never mentioned is the devaluation she undergoes by society for being a raped person, and this is most of the world in 2012, from Africa to Asia to South America, and the MIddle East, even here in the US. Ancient Israel lead womens rights 3000 years ago, they lead it today in the 21st century.
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Inuyasha wrote:
mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
I'm frankly very tired of hearing how my rights always come second to those of a 'baby'.
No. Sorry. I'm a human being. Not even other humans get the right to violate me. So yes, if I were ever raped, you can suck my ass and that 'baby' can suck my adrenaline and die. Yknow because being in a country where abortion is illegal and going elsewhere for one costs close to a thousand, my first feasible option would be plain old rue.
No. Sorry. I'm a human being. Not even other humans get the right to violate me. So yes, if I were ever raped, you can suck my ass and that 'baby' can suck my adrenaline and die. Yknow because being in a country where abortion is illegal and going elsewhere for one costs close to a thousand, my first feasible option would be plain old rue.
No one is saying that you aren't a human being... What we are pointing out is that the child is also a human being. The child didn't choose to inside you and quite frankly, I don't think the child would want someone like you as his/her biological mother.
The reason why the child's rights should trump yours in this case is due to the fact that you are trying to essentially terminate the child's life, while in contrast pregnency is not nearly as life threatening to the mother as it was 20 years ago. Since the fact of the matter is that the one option involves the death of an innocent child while the other we see both the child and you surviving, this isn't rocket science.
What you are doing is taking out your anger (which is natural) and hatred (which is justified), out on an innocent child (which is not okay), because you can't get at the person that violated you.
There is something known as adoption if you don't want to keep the kid, you don't have to kill the kid.
That's not how right and wrong works. You don't get to violate people even to survive. Including fetuses. If it's a person then guess what...it is subject to the same boundaries everyone else has. No born person gets to force access to someone's body even to survive.
And no, I'm not taking anger out on anyone, I'm simply not open to carrying a pregnancy for any reason. I wouldn't carry a pregnancy even if it was from consensual sex (which is entirely hypothetical, because I don't plan on having sex).
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AngelRho
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MarketAndChurch wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
Actually the official religious right position is that a rapist is required to make a marriage proposal to the victim if the victim is unmarried but if the victim is married the rapist must be executed. If the rapist gets married he can never be granted a divorce.
At the onset: The bible alternates between telling reality as it is, and inferring sometimes overtly, sometimes with great subtlety, how it ought to be.
It was necessary in the ancient near east to make men accountable for their actions. Woman needed to be married off, it was a different social arrangement and she needed children to have worth in society because that then ties her back to her husbands family if anything ever happened to him in battle.
If she chooses to marry the man who raped her, he is never allowed to divorce, and is stuck with her for life. No where else in the world do they not only offer the above mentioned to the raped girl, but, no where else in the world was a raped woman's dignity and worth FULLY restored following a rape. A woman obviously never chooses to get raped, but what is also never mentioned is the devaluation she undergoes by society for being a raped person, and this is most of the world in 2012, from Africa to Asia to South America, and the MIddle East, even here in the US. Ancient Israel lead womens rights 3000 years ago, they lead it today in the 21st century.
This is assuming that the Israelites actually followed the law, and that's exactly what it was designed for--to bring mercy and dignity to hostile world that objectified human beings and often treated them as property rather than persons. The Bible recognizes this fact of ancient life and then seeks to make it livable. As long as Israel lived according to these conventions, they were a shining light to the rest of the world. Giving women an equal standing with men makes many, if not most, of these laws moot. Where Christians have had a lasting influence slavery has been eliminated as an institution or driven underground. Laws regarding the treatment of slaves need not even be mentioned if there is no slavery to be regulated! Jesus even said that divorce laws existed only because God knew the wickedness of men's hearts, not because God wants people to marry and divorce. And it seems to me that much of your OT laws have the same basis. Love God, love others, and the rest is a no-brainer.
AngelRho
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mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
I'm frankly very tired of hearing how my rights always come second to those of a 'baby'.
No. Sorry. I'm a human being. Not even other humans get the right to violate me. So yes, if I were ever raped, you can suck my ass and that 'baby' can suck my adrenaline and die. Yknow because being in a country where abortion is illegal and going elsewhere for one costs close to a thousand, my first feasible option would be plain old rue.
No. Sorry. I'm a human being. Not even other humans get the right to violate me. So yes, if I were ever raped, you can suck my ass and that 'baby' can suck my adrenaline and die. Yknow because being in a country where abortion is illegal and going elsewhere for one costs close to a thousand, my first feasible option would be plain old rue.
No one is saying that you aren't a human being... What we are pointing out is that the child is also a human being. The child didn't choose to inside you and quite frankly, I don't think the child would want someone like you as his/her biological mother.
The reason why the child's rights should trump yours in this case is due to the fact that you are trying to essentially terminate the child's life, while in contrast pregnency is not nearly as life threatening to the mother as it was 20 years ago. Since the fact of the matter is that the one option involves the death of an innocent child while the other we see both the child and you surviving, this isn't rocket science.
What you are doing is taking out your anger (which is natural) and hatred (which is justified), out on an innocent child (which is not okay), because you can't get at the person that violated you.
There is something known as adoption if you don't want to keep the kid, you don't have to kill the kid.
That's not how right and wrong works. You don't get to violate people even to survive. Including fetuses. If it's a person then guess what...it is subject to the same boundaries everyone else has. No born person gets to force access to someone's body even to survive.
And no, I'm not taking anger out on anyone, I'm simply not open to carrying a pregnancy for any reason. I wouldn't carry a pregnancy even if it was from consensual sex (which is entirely hypothetical, because I don't plan on having sex).
If you're never going to have sex, then you're never going to have to worry about it. The problem here is that you're presuming to tell OTHER people what morality calls they can and cannot make. It's just as unfair as men presuming to tell women what they can/cannot do with their own bodies. You've put yourself outside the circle.
AngelRho wrote:
If you're never going to have sex, then you're never going to have to worry about it. The problem here is that you're presuming to tell OTHER people what morality calls they can and cannot make. It's just as unfair as men presuming to tell women what they can/cannot do with their own bodies. You've put yourself outside the circle.
You can still worry about it. You could get raped.
I'm not telling anyone else what to do. I'm saying everyone should have the choice they want to make, whether that is to have an abortion or to not have one no matter what.
Oodain
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AngelRho wrote:
mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
I'm frankly very tired of hearing how my rights always come second to those of a 'baby'.
No. Sorry. I'm a human being. Not even other humans get the right to violate me. So yes, if I were ever raped, you can suck my ass and that 'baby' can suck my adrenaline and die. Yknow because being in a country where abortion is illegal and going elsewhere for one costs close to a thousand, my first feasible option would be plain old rue.
No. Sorry. I'm a human being. Not even other humans get the right to violate me. So yes, if I were ever raped, you can suck my ass and that 'baby' can suck my adrenaline and die. Yknow because being in a country where abortion is illegal and going elsewhere for one costs close to a thousand, my first feasible option would be plain old rue.
No one is saying that you aren't a human being... What we are pointing out is that the child is also a human being. The child didn't choose to inside you and quite frankly, I don't think the child would want someone like you as his/her biological mother.
The reason why the child's rights should trump yours in this case is due to the fact that you are trying to essentially terminate the child's life, while in contrast pregnency is not nearly as life threatening to the mother as it was 20 years ago. Since the fact of the matter is that the one option involves the death of an innocent child while the other we see both the child and you surviving, this isn't rocket science.
What you are doing is taking out your anger (which is natural) and hatred (which is justified), out on an innocent child (which is not okay), because you can't get at the person that violated you.
There is something known as adoption if you don't want to keep the kid, you don't have to kill the kid.
That's not how right and wrong works. You don't get to violate people even to survive. Including fetuses. If it's a person then guess what...it is subject to the same boundaries everyone else has. No born person gets to force access to someone's body even to survive.
And no, I'm not taking anger out on anyone, I'm simply not open to carrying a pregnancy for any reason. I wouldn't carry a pregnancy even if it was from consensual sex (which is entirely hypothetical, because I don't plan on having sex).
If you're never going to have sex, then you're never going to have to worry about it. The problem here is that you're presuming to tell OTHER people what morality calls they can and cannot make. It's just as unfair as men presuming to tell women what they can/cannot do with their own bodies. You've put yourself outside the circle.
and you are doing excactly the same,
difference is you are trying to decide how the body of others should be used and she her own.
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