Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

Page 89 of 201 [ 3204 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92 ... 201  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

MaxE
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,890
Location: Mid-Atlantic US

19 Jun 2022, 10:00 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
MaxE wrote:
SkinnedWolf wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Putin was wrong about US food exports.
https://www.usda.gov/media/press-releas ... cords-2021

Yes, China and the United States have always been important trading partners in soybeans - accounting for 34.4% of China's total soybean imports and about 60% of the total U.S. soybean exports.

Sadly 41% of US farmland is used to produce meat, primarily beef and primarily factory produced food such as "fast food". If that land was used to produce wheat and soybeans, there would be no food crisis in Europe or elsewhere.

It is unrealistic to require farmland holders to select crops according to the needs of food security - usually only based on income.
I would not say that Americans have a special obligation on this issue.

In the late Qing Dynasty, the government encouraged farmers to grow opium to prevent the outflow of silver, which was undoubtedly responsible for the famine in the country.
I suspect that this dynamic continues in some parts of the world today.

"Fast food" is at least "food"

Fast food is food but it's a very inefficient way to distribute calories when there is a food crisis. The American obligation is that the US has a huge amount of arable land, comparable to China but with a fraction of the population. I don't think it inappropriate, in wartime, for farmers to be obliged to plant crops in accordance with the requirements of fighting that war. In exchange for that support, I believe those farmers are entitled to compensation taken from the majority of us who aren't farmers. This is what happened during WWII. The fact that it's not happening today is a big part of why the US is no longer viewed as a reliable ally.


_________________
My WP story


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

19 Jun 2022, 10:05 am

We don't have food crisis here, Europe is food-secure.
We fear effects of food crisis in Middle East and parts of Africa, desert, often poor and unstable countries that rely on food imports. With Ukrainian ports blocked, Russia can use wheat to either simply cause unrest and despair or to force policies in exchange for food.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


MaxE
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,890
Location: Mid-Atlantic US

19 Jun 2022, 10:09 am

magz wrote:
We don't have food crisis here, Europe is food-secure.
We fear effects of food crisis in Middle East and parts of Africa, desert, often poor and unstable countries that rely on food imports. With Ukrainian ports blocked, Russia can use wheat to either simply cause unrest and despair or to force policies in exchange for food.

Not that it was so intended, but I don't think this contradicts what I said in my previous comment.


_________________
My WP story


SpiralingCrow
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Apr 2022
Age: 49
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,558

19 Jun 2022, 10:10 am

Farmers are not rich. Most grow or produce what will make them the most money. As prices go up and certain commodities become more scarce, farmers may decide to change course for next growing season. Governments can help not by requiring farmers to grow particular crops but by offering subsidies or tax relief if they grow that which is most necessary.



SkinnedWolf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Mar 2022
Age: 26
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,538
Location: China

19 Jun 2022, 10:13 am

^^^https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=403880&&start=1312#p9051983
I will quote this again.

Egypt to receive wheat shipments from Ukraine by rail from Poland

Quote:
Cairo agreed with Kyiv on four wheat cargoes, which will reach Egypt by rail to Poland, raising hopes of restoring food security.


_________________
With the help of translation software.

Cover your eyes, if you like. It will serve no purpose.

You might expect to be able to crush them in your hand, into wolf-bone fragments.
Show Spoiler
Dance with me, funeralxempire. Into night's circle we fly, until the fire enjoys us.


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

19 Jun 2022, 10:23 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
^^^https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=403880&&start=1312#p9051983
I will quote this again.

Egypt to receive wheat shipments from Ukraine by rail from Poland
Quote:
Cairo agreed with Kyiv on four wheat cargoes, which will reach Egypt by rail to Poland, raising hopes of restoring food security.
We're doing what we can to mitigate this crisis. I'm glad some of our efforts have effects.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


MaxE
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,890
Location: Mid-Atlantic US

19 Jun 2022, 10:24 am

SpiralingCrow wrote:
Farmers are not rich. Most grow or produce what will make them the most money. As prices go up and certain commodities become more scarce, farmers may decide to change course for next growing season. Governments can help not by requiring farmers to grow particular crops but by offering subsidies or tax relief if they grow that which is most necessary.

Either way it's government spending in support of policy.


_________________
My WP story


MaxE
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,890
Location: Mid-Atlantic US

19 Jun 2022, 10:25 am

magz wrote:
SkinnedWolf wrote:
^^^https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=403880&&start=1312#p9051983
I will quote this again.

Egypt to receive wheat shipments from Ukraine by rail from Poland
Quote:
Cairo agreed with Kyiv on four wheat cargoes, which will reach Egypt by rail to Poland, raising hopes of restoring food security.
We're doing what we can to mitigate this crisis. I'm glad some of our efforts have effects.

Awesome! You guys are really facing the challenges with action!


_________________
My WP story


SpiralingCrow
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Apr 2022
Age: 49
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,558

19 Jun 2022, 10:35 am

MaxE wrote:
SpiralingCrow wrote:
Farmers are not rich. Most grow or produce what will make them the most money. As prices go up and certain commodities become more scarce, farmers may decide to change course for next growing season. Governments can help not by requiring farmers to grow particular crops but by offering subsidies or tax relief if they grow that which is most necessary.

Either way it's government spending in support of policy.


Freedom of choice is still there.



magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

19 Jun 2022, 10:42 am

MaxE wrote:
Awesome! You guys are really facing the challenges with action!
Biden is also active in these efforts.
https://www.politico.eu/article/poland- ... ke-months/
While we're doing what we can to improve logistics, financial aid with such projects would be most welcome, as our economy is already very stressed and the importers aren't rich either.
Luckily, we're a resilient society here, we'll survive the crisis. But at some point, things become simply unaffordable on our own, especially with our financially inept government.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


MaxE
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,890
Location: Mid-Atlantic US

19 Jun 2022, 10:47 am

magz wrote:
MaxE wrote:
Awesome! You guys are really facing the challenges with action!
Biden is also active in these efforts.
https://www.politico.eu/article/poland- ... ke-months/
While we're doing what we can to improve logistics, financial aid with such projects would be most welcome, as our economy is already very stressed and the importers aren't rich either.
Luckily, we're a resilient society here, we'll survive the crisis. But at some point, things become simply unaffordable on our own, especially with our financially inept government.

Bear in mind that most of us seem to blame Biden for our relatively mild economic woes and seem to care more about stripping him of power than about anything happening in Eastern Europe.


_________________
My WP story


SkinnedWolf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Mar 2022
Age: 26
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,538
Location: China

19 Jun 2022, 10:48 am

Some things may not be solved by increasing calorie production in the United States——
India exports food while millions starve

Quote:
Profits before people … while 320 million of its people go hungry every night, India has become the world’s largest rice exporter, and is considering exporting ‘excess’ wheat as well.

There can be nothing more criminal for any hungry nation to export its staple food. It is the primary responsibility of the government, as enshrined in the Directive Principles, to ensure that every citizen is well-fed. Unfortunately what is not being realised is the declining fall in per capita availability of foodgrains matches the availability at the time of Bengal famine in 1943. Isn’t it sad that even after 70 years of Bengal famine, we still live in the shadow of hunger and starvation? How can any sensible nation therefore justify food exports?

Food management essentially means distributing the available foodgrains among the poor and hungry. Export of staple foods therefore must be immediately stopped, and all out efforts have to be made to take the foodgrains to the doors of the hungry millions. This is the primary responsibility of every government.

2012 report. The situation remains unchanged.
A country worse than North Korea in terms of hunger is exporting a lot of staple food.

However, more grain circulating in the international market may make India's exports more unprofitable, forcing them to provide more food to their citizens. But can this really change the fundamental problem?


_________________
With the help of translation software.

Cover your eyes, if you like. It will serve no purpose.

You might expect to be able to crush them in your hand, into wolf-bone fragments.
Show Spoiler
Dance with me, funeralxempire. Into night's circle we fly, until the fire enjoys us.


MaxE
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,890
Location: Mid-Atlantic US

19 Jun 2022, 10:51 am

SpiralingCrow wrote:
MaxE wrote:
SpiralingCrow wrote:
Farmers are not rich. Most grow or produce what will make them the most money. As prices go up and certain commodities become more scarce, farmers may decide to change course for next growing season. Governments can help not by requiring farmers to grow particular crops but by offering subsidies or tax relief if they grow that which is most necessary.

Either way it's government spending in support of policy.


Freedom of choice is still there.

Unless the government sends troops in on black helicopters to arrest property owners and seize their property, yes. But in wartime there are other things at least as important as freedom of choice.


_________________
My WP story


SpiralingCrow
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Apr 2022
Age: 49
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,558

19 Jun 2022, 11:04 am

And when has that happened in the US?

Subsidies or tax breaks would most likely appeal to small farmers struggling to make ends meet. Larger farmers will most likely go with what makes them the most money. Seizing propery was not even suggested and probably would be unconstitutional.



magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

19 Jun 2022, 11:14 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
Some things may not be solved by increasing calorie production in the United States——
India exports food while millions starve
Quote:
Profits before people … while 320 million of its people go hungry every night, India has become the world’s largest rice exporter, and is considering exporting ‘excess’ wheat as well.

There can be nothing more criminal for any hungry nation to export its staple food. It is the primary responsibility of the government, as enshrined in the Directive Principles, to ensure that every citizen is well-fed. Unfortunately what is not being realised is the declining fall in per capita availability of foodgrains matches the availability at the time of Bengal famine in 1943. Isn’t it sad that even after 70 years of Bengal famine, we still live in the shadow of hunger and starvation? How can any sensible nation therefore justify food exports?

Food management essentially means distributing the available foodgrains among the poor and hungry. Export of staple foods therefore must be immediately stopped, and all out efforts have to be made to take the foodgrains to the doors of the hungry millions. This is the primary responsibility of every government.

2012 report. The situation remains unchanged.
A country worse than North Korea in terms of hunger is exporting a lot of staple food.

However, more grain circulating in the international market may make India's exports more unprofitable, forcing them to provide more food to their citizens. But can this really change the fundamental problem?

This year, India has banned food exports.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-61590756
It seems they are open to making exceptions to this ban, though.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

19 Jun 2022, 11:19 am

MaxE wrote:
Bear in mind that most of us seem to blame Biden for our relatively mild economic woes and seem to care more about stripping him of power than about anything happening in Eastern Europe.
As we say here, punkt widzenia zależy od punktu siedzenia - the point of view depends on the point of sitting.
We prefer to fight this war with money, logistics and diplomacy because the option of fighting it with blood is a very real possibility here. And that would cost us way more than any sanctions and aid ever could.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>