Veganism/Vegetarianism

Post Reply New Topic

I am very shocked that ValentineWiggin hasn't posted anything in this thread yet. My thoughts are this I have no problem with Vegans in fact I would like to go on a vegan diet to lose weight even though I am a carnivore at heart I eat way to much flesh then I do veggies.

So long as you have to factory farm and feed your animals on non-grass yes. However, I only eat meat that was raised on grass, which is a net positive since we can't turn grass into energy but animals can.

Soy and legumes are just not as tasty as meat, which combined with my "humans should eat the diet they evolved to eat" point of view on eating makes cutting meat a logical error.

If I had a cow I would only feed it grass. That's the food the cow evolved to eat and it's what makes the cow healthiest with the healthiest bowel flora (no E.coli O157:H7). I can't get any energy from eating grass so it makes more sense for me to eat the cow. I don't actually have a cow so I buy meat from people who do and who let their cows eat grass instead of giving them corn, which is unhealthy for them and makes their meat unhealthy for me.

edited to add: now that I read on in the thread, TM just said the same thing. So...yay for grass fed cows.

One thing I do not understand about some vegan/vegetarians is why eat that way because they don't believe in eating meat or the killing of it... If they knew how many rodents get purposely killed by toxic chemicals that farmers spread around, in order for crops to grow properly, they might change their minds, or is a rodent just some nothing creature, similar to how some vegetarians eat fish with no remorse?

Last edited by Pondering on 01 May 2012, 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think vegans have the right idea though I'm not willing to join them.

One thing I think is silly is their view of honey. They believe we are exploiting the bees. I draw the line at insects. Ive seen plenty of sci-fi and they'd do worse to us given the chance. Take the damn honey.

"DON*T EAT THE TUNA?"

"Why not?"

"BECAUSE DOLPHINS GET CAUGHT IN THE NETS!"

"What about the tuna?"

"Well f**k them."

Are "vegans" the same thing as "vegitarians"?
I thought the former was just abreviation of the latter,but someone told me they there's a difference- but said that they didnt know what the difference was.

Not exactly. "Vegan" is a more specific term than "vegetarian." A vegan eats no animal products at all. It is one form of vegetarianism which is a broader, more inclusive term and includes veganism, ovo-lacto (egg and milk consuming) vegetarianism, and other forms of "vegetarianism" including one that includes eating fish. (Benjamin Franklin has been called a vegetarian, although he ate fish.)

Oh, they do. There are small amounts of protozoa in tap water and mineral water, and some protozoa are airborn. Since protozoa (unlike bacteria) belong to the animal kingdom, vegans ingest and digest their fair share of animals. Other protozoa are a natural part of the human intestinal flora. When those organisms die -- often due to an immune response of their host, which means that the host is directly responsible for their death -- they are digested as well.

There are also tiny airborn mites, such as dust mites, which inevitably land on food items unless one lives and eats in a sterile bubble. So not only do vegans eat animals, they even devour multicellular animals that possess a nervous system and are very likely to feel pain. To live is to kill sentient life forms. One might as well come to terms with this inevitability.

I also don't understand how vegans define animal products. It seems rather arbitrary to me. For example, vegans don't eat honey, but honey is actually a processed plant product (nectar). It's not secreted by bees, it is merely ingested and regurgitated. One could argue that the nectar wouldn't have turned into honey without the work effort of insects, but the same could be said about fruits, since most trees depend on insect pollination.

Clothing is another example. Vegans claim that no animals have died for their clothes, but that's probably not entirely true. Most clothing contains oil-based products such as synthetic fibers, and the production process as well as the transportation of the clothes and raw materials also involves oil. Crude oil is basically the pressurized remains of dead organisms, including dead animals. So no matter if someone wears real or fake fur and leather, some animals had to die for it at some point in history.

You all need some Marmite!! !!

I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with killing and eating animals. My problem is that the conditions for the animals are horrible on many industrial animal farms. Still, I enjoy my meat too much to stop eating it. I am a bad person.

I'm not vegan, so I don't know why I should feel a need to defend being vegan, but if one isn't being absolutist about it, a vegan causes a lot less DEATH than the rest of us. So really, why the attack?

You forgot the fact that production of natural fibers, especially cotton, is a leading destroyer of natural habitat.

This reminds me of a clerk who offered me a plastic bag for a small item. I declined and said I'd just carry it. This seemed to offend him and he mockingly commented that since the bag was already made that it wouldnt help the environment not to use it. I didnt see the point of mentioning the rate of replacement. That he was angry about my choice was interesting though.

I didn't attack you, I merely disagreed with the notion that vegans don't eat animal products and wanted to share my thoughts on the subject. Sorry if my post came across as impolite or aggressive. I didn't perceive it that way myself.

Sorry I took it that way. You made good points actually, about dust mites and so forth. I'm not into any form of absolutist food rules myself. I try to eat less meat, because I love animals, and I hope they'll try to eat less of me (mosquitoes, fleas ... tigers, LOL).