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Pat Condell: "A word to rioting Muslims"

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Tequila
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24 Sep 2012, 9:33 am

TM wrote:
Here is the problem with absolute ideals highlighted. In essence, anyone non-muslim could not give a sh** about the prophet, the qu'ran or hadith. Quite frankly, they most likely do not carry the same values as people who do give a sh** about the prophet, the quran and hadith, therefore holding them to those standards (and requiring them by force if possible to do so) is not only openly demonstrating that you will enforce a "religion of peace" with copious amounts of violence, but also lack the capacity for tolerance.


Case in point, the Islamic preacher in Egypt who tore the Bible up and set it alight. Yet if anyone did the same to the Quran, he'd be screaming and calling for their swift and brutal beheading.

You can't let people like that, or their apologists, set the bounds for free speech in the West.

For all the calls for "tolerance" from Islamic preachers, scholars and other whingers, these same people are often incapable of actually being tolerant themselves. This mindset needs to be exposed at every single turn.



thomas81
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24 Sep 2012, 11:49 am

Tequila wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Canada, Japan, Germany, France, Italy and Sweden arent the ones being bombed by Islamic terrorists. Thats because these nations and countries like them have the foresight to stay out of lands where they aren't welcome.


Yup, but they're still immigrating to most of these places - unasked and unwanted by most of the locals, but invited by the politicians - and making a damn nuisance of themselves. Germany and Sweden weren't exactly massive colonial powers in the Islamic world, yet they still turned up in Europe en-masse regardless, invited of course by the multiculti left. The crime rates of Muslim immigrants in some of these Scandinavian countries make startling reading.


Irrelevant.

I'm talking about Islamic terrorism and the political semantics behind it, not immigration.

A significant number of immigrants are muslim because many countries with economic push factors are predominately muslim.



thomas81
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24 Sep 2012, 12:07 pm

Tequila wrote:
TM wrote:
Here is the problem with absolute ideals highlighted. In essence, anyone non-muslim could not give a sh** about the prophet, the qu'ran or hadith. Quite frankly, they most likely do not carry the same values as people who do give a sh** about the prophet, the quran and hadith, therefore holding them to those standards (and requiring them by force if possible to do so) is not only openly demonstrating that you will enforce a "religion of peace" with copious amounts of violence, but also lack the capacity for tolerance.


Case in point, the Islamic preacher in Egypt who tore the Bible up and set it alight. Yet if anyone did the same to the Quran, he'd be screaming and calling for their swift and brutal beheading.

You can't let people like that, or their apologists, set the bounds for free speech in the West.

For all the calls for "tolerance" from Islamic preachers, scholars and other whingers, these same people are often incapable of actually being tolerant themselves. This mindset needs to be exposed at every single turn.


Another thing which needs to be 'exposed at every single turn' is this tendency by opportunist right pundits (like Mr Condell) and extreme right slapheads to single out specific religions while conveniently ignoring that other major religions, are hardly free from a blackened history of similar violence and intolerance.



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24 Sep 2012, 12:13 pm

thomas81 wrote:



Another thing which needs to be 'exposed at every single turn' is this tendency by opportunist right pundits (like Mr Condell) and extreme right slapheads to single out specific religions while conveniently ignoring that other major religions, are hardly free from a blackened history of similar violence and intolerance.


Pat Condel is an outspoken atheist.

ruveyn



thomas81
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24 Sep 2012, 12:14 pm

ruveyn wrote:
thomas81 wrote:



Another thing which needs to be 'exposed at every single turn' is this tendency by opportunist right pundits (like Mr Condell) and extreme right slapheads to single out specific religions while conveniently ignoring that other major religions, are hardly free from a blackened history of similar violence and intolerance.


Pat Condel is an outspoken atheist.

ruveyn


Again irrelevant. The concerning thing is, that his hatred of islam especially, seems to be something of a pet project.



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24 Sep 2012, 1:19 pm

TM wrote:
Here is the problem with absolute ideals highlighted. In essence, anyone non-muslim could not give a sh** about the prophet, the qu'ran or hadith. Quite frankly, they most likely do not carry the same values as people who do give a sh** about the prophet, the quran and hadith, therefore holding them to those standards (and requiring them by force if possible to do so) is not only openly demonstrating that you will enforce a "religion of peace" with copious amounts of violence, but also lack the capacity for tolerance.

The problem is they don't see it as a double standard because it isn't a level playing field. Their religion is the "One True Religion" and all others are false. Christianity was once this way as well. Thank God it isn't anymore. This is why you can't even have an argument with religious fundamentalists. It will always be their way or the high way.



Tequila
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24 Sep 2012, 1:22 pm

marshall wrote:
The problem is they don't see it as a double standard because it isn't a level playing field. Their religion is the "One True Religion" and all others are false. Christianity was once this way as well. Thank God it isn't anymore. This is why you can't even have an argument with religious fundamentalists. It will always be their way or the high way.


Spot on.

I'm so glad I don't have to put up with the Jesusland type stuff you get in the U.S.



TM
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24 Sep 2012, 2:40 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Tequila wrote:
TM wrote:
Here is the problem with absolute ideals highlighted. In essence, anyone non-muslim could not give a sh** about the prophet, the qu'ran or hadith. Quite frankly, they most likely do not carry the same values as people who do give a sh** about the prophet, the quran and hadith, therefore holding them to those standards (and requiring them by force if possible to do so) is not only openly demonstrating that you will enforce a "religion of peace" with copious amounts of violence, but also lack the capacity for tolerance.


Case in point, the Islamic preacher in Egypt who tore the Bible up and set it alight. Yet if anyone did the same to the Quran, he'd be screaming and calling for their swift and brutal beheading.

You can't let people like that, or their apologists, set the bounds for free speech in the West.

For all the calls for "tolerance" from Islamic preachers, scholars and other whingers, these same people are often incapable of actually being tolerant themselves. This mindset needs to be exposed at every single turn.


Another thing which needs to be 'exposed at every single turn' is this tendency by opportunist right pundits (like Mr Condell) and extreme right slapheads to single out specific religions while conveniently ignoring that other major religions, are hardly free from a blackened history of similar violence and intolerance.


Not really though. I know its the leftist mantra of "well, look at other religions" but Christians are generally not beheading people, suppressing basic human rights for millions of people, and generally keeping a jihad gun against people's heads.

Even Christianity in the Renaissance was not quite as bad as Islam is now. The biggest problem is that we have quite a few "traitors" as I'd put it who are defending the rights of religious people to act like barbaric morons, when what should be done is:

"Either stop this BS or do without the aid we give you, do without the ability to come to countries where you get privileges and rights you don't deserve, and finally do without freedom for your hate-ideology. We have an ideal which is called "freedom of speech" which means that while you may get outraged at utilization of this ideal, it does not give you a right to behave violently."



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24 Sep 2012, 3:01 pm

TM wrote:
The biggest problem is that we have quite a few "traitors" as I'd put it who are defending the rights of religious people to act like barbaric morons, when what should be done is:

"Either stop this BS or do without the aid we give you, do without the ability to come to countries where you get privileges and rights you don't deserve, and finally do without freedom for your hate-ideology. We have an ideal which is called "freedom of speech" which means that while you may get outraged at utilization of this ideal, it does not give you a right to behave violently."



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24 Sep 2012, 3:30 pm

Tequila wrote:
marshall wrote:
The problem is they don't see it as a double standard because it isn't a level playing field. Their religion is the "One True Religion" and all others are false. Christianity was once this way as well. Thank God it isn't anymore. This is why you can't even have an argument with religious fundamentalists. It will always be their way or the high way.


Spot on.

I'm so glad I don't have to put up with the Jesusland type stuff you get in the U.S.


It actually isn't that bad depending on where you live. It's just that in a lot of places church oriented gatherings are the only real kind of community so that if you don't go to church you're kind of left out.



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24 Sep 2012, 4:04 pm

TM wrote:
Not really though. I know its the leftist mantra of "well, look at other religions" but Christians are generally not beheading people, suppressing basic human rights for millions of people, and generally keeping a jihad gun against people's heads.

Even Christianity in the Renaissance was not quite as bad as Islam is now. The biggest problem is that we have quite a few "traitors" as I'd put it who are defending the rights of religious people to act like barbaric morons, when what should be done is:



I am not going to act as a proponent for any theology, but to play devil's advocate Islam is still in adolescence due simply to being a younger religion than christianity. Chronologically speaking, Islam has only caught up to the time that the Christian church was still burning people for heresy and 'witchcraft'.

If we look at it from that context, perhaps they are behaving with a level of civility they arent being given credit for. In moralist terms that the right wing love to bang on about so much, being burnt alive is a far more horrible death than stoning or beheading.



TM
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24 Sep 2012, 4:21 pm

thomas81 wrote:
TM wrote:
Not really though. I know its the leftist mantra of "well, look at other religions" but Christians are generally not beheading people, suppressing basic human rights for millions of people, and generally keeping a jihad gun against people's heads.

Even Christianity in the Renaissance was not quite as bad as Islam is now. The biggest problem is that we have quite a few "traitors" as I'd put it who are defending the rights of religious people to act like barbaric morons, when what should be done is:



I am not going to act as a proponent for any theology, but to play devil's advocate Islam is still in adolescence due simply to being a younger religion than christianity. Chronologically speaking, Islam has only caught up to the time that the Christian church was still burning people for heresy and 'witchcraft'.

If we look at it from that context, perhaps they are behaving with a level of civility they arent being given credit for. In moralist terms that the right wing love to bang on about so much, being burnt alive is a far more horrible death than stoning or beheading.


You have to keep in mind context, at the time of the Salem witch trials, was the behavior displayed by Christians so far outside what was deemed acceptable social norms? In 1820 in Britain some 160 crimes were punishable by capital punishment. At the time, the Iron maiden was still in use, as was "The Saw" and quite a few other quite horrific devices for the torture of human beings.

From a historical context, Islam is about 1500 years old, so you are correct in that when Christianity was 1500 years old, the behavior of Christians was somewhat barbaric. However, since we are talking about 1500 AD Christian behavior at that time was hardly more barbaric than society at large.

However, Christianity has changed as society has changed, Islam has not. So, its not an insult when someone says that Islam is stuck in the middle ages, its the literal truth.



Last edited by TM on 24 Sep 2012, 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tequila
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24 Sep 2012, 4:42 pm

TM wrote:
So, its not an insult when someone says that Islam is stuck in the middle ages, its the literal truth.


I get the impression that people in repressive regimes do try to discuss national (and regional) political and social issues as much as they can on the Internet (as pseudonymously as possible), but it's an extremely risky business - bloggers often end up in prison or dead and so on.



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24 Sep 2012, 5:17 pm

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24 Sep 2012, 6:07 pm

thomas81 wrote:
TM wrote:
Not really though. I know its the leftist mantra of "well, look at other religions" but Christians are generally not beheading people, suppressing basic human rights for millions of people, and generally keeping a jihad gun against people's heads.

Even Christianity in the Renaissance was not quite as bad as Islam is now. The biggest problem is that we have quite a few "traitors" as I'd put it who are defending the rights of religious people to act like barbaric morons, when what should be done is:



I am not going to act as a proponent for any theology, but to play devil's advocate Islam is still in adolescence due simply to being a younger religion than christianity. Chronologically speaking, Islam has only caught up to the time that the Christian church was still burning people for heresy and 'witchcraft'.

If we look at it from that context, perhaps they are behaving with a level of civility they arent being given credit for. In moralist terms that the right wing love to bang on about so much, being burnt alive is a far more horrible death than stoning or beheading.


Sikhism and Baha'i are much younger, you know.

Also, Islam is about 1,400 years old.


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24 Sep 2012, 6:20 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
TM wrote:
Not really though. I know its the leftist mantra of "well, look at other religions" but Christians are generally not beheading people, suppressing basic human rights for millions of people, and generally keeping a jihad gun against people's heads.

Even Christianity in the Renaissance was not quite as bad as Islam is now. The biggest problem is that we have quite a few "traitors" as I'd put it who are defending the rights of religious people to act like barbaric morons, when what should be done is:



I am not going to act as a proponent for any theology, but to play devil's advocate Islam is still in adolescence due simply to being a younger religion than christianity. Chronologically speaking, Islam has only caught up to the time that the Christian church was still burning people for heresy and 'witchcraft'.

If we look at it from that context, perhaps they are behaving with a level of civility they arent being given credit for. In moralist terms that the right wing love to bang on about so much, being burnt alive is a far more horrible death than stoning or beheading.


Sikhism and Baha'i are much younger, you know.

Also, Islam is about 1,400 years old.


Correct me if i'm wrong, but Sikhism and Baha'ism don't stem from abrahamic tradition.

This is what Islam, Judaism and Christianity have in common.

I realise Islam is 1400 years old which is my point. When Christianity was 1400 years old its clerics were doing some pretty heinous stuff, if not even more so than what some islamists are getting up to today.



Last edited by thomas81 on 24 Sep 2012, 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.