If there was an Autistic state would you migrate there?
28 Jan 2015, 1:13 pm
Booyakasha wrote:
You people don't know the Balkans. Any territory which is under control of Serbian police, which is disputed territory, where there was recently a bloody war (actually several of them) because of territories and borders isn't safe for making an autistic state. I just don't want anyone to waste time, money and energy contemplating of coming here and possibly getting hurt....but as you wish.
Not only that, I assume that there are people living in those areas who wouldn't look too kindly on a bunch of nitwits thinking they could move in and claim sovereignty.
And once there is some agreement over the location of the borders, whichever country got those areas would quickly chase them out if they hadn't done so already. I can't imagine that anyone would be permitted to just move in like was suggested.
Besides, who wants to live that close to a border at which another war could break out in the future? I sure wouldn't want shelling and bombing to level my house and tanks to cross over the rubble of what had been my living room.
28 Jan 2015, 1:26 pm
An interesting article on sovereign land purchases from http://foreignpolicy.com/2012/06/05/why-dont-countries-buy-territory-like-they-used-to/:
Quote:
nce upon a time, sovereigns bought and sold themselves to one another. Specifically, they purchased sovereign territory. The United States, to take the easiest example, looks the way it does not just because of military conquest, but because of bold real estate deals, including most notably the Adams-Onis Treaty, the Louisiana Purchase, and the Alaska Purchase. Occasionally such sales were tied up with military action, as with the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, which ended the Mexican-American War, transferred the Mexican Cession, and committed the United States to pay Mexico $15 million “[i]n consideration of the extension acquired.”[…]
Somewhere along the way, the market for sovereign territory seems to have dried up, at least as far as I can tell. To be sure, there is still an active market for proprietary interests in public land; the federal government, after all, owns approximately 30% of the nation’s land. But borders–sovereign territory, rather than property–do not seem to be for sale, especially domestically. Why?
...
There are also some signs that the concept of sovereign land purchases may be making a comeback. As Blocher notes, some commentators have half-seriously suggested Greece sell off some its islands to settle its debts. Paul Romer’s charter cities concept involves a Hong Kong-esque lease of territory for commercial development purchases — creating a little piece of Canada in Honduras for example. Low-lying island nations like Maldives and Kiribati have openly discussed the possibility of buying land in other countries as their territory is threatened by sea-level rise.
It is also tempting to wonder whether there are any economic solutions to current territorial disputes. Is there a scenario in which China could simply pay the Philippines to give up the Spratlys? What would be a fair price?
Somewhere along the way, the market for sovereign territory seems to have dried up, at least as far as I can tell. To be sure, there is still an active market for proprietary interests in public land; the federal government, after all, owns approximately 30% of the nation’s land. But borders–sovereign territory, rather than property–do not seem to be for sale, especially domestically. Why?
...
There are also some signs that the concept of sovereign land purchases may be making a comeback. As Blocher notes, some commentators have half-seriously suggested Greece sell off some its islands to settle its debts. Paul Romer’s charter cities concept involves a Hong Kong-esque lease of territory for commercial development purchases — creating a little piece of Canada in Honduras for example. Low-lying island nations like Maldives and Kiribati have openly discussed the possibility of buying land in other countries as their territory is threatened by sea-level rise.
It is also tempting to wonder whether there are any economic solutions to current territorial disputes. Is there a scenario in which China could simply pay the Philippines to give up the Spratlys? What would be a fair price?
Note that this is about a nation buying land that they would have sovereign control over, not individuals.
28 Jan 2015, 2:30 pm
eric76 wrote:
Booyakasha wrote:
You people don't know the Balkans. Any territory which is under control of Serbian police, which is disputed territory, where there was recently a bloody war (actually several of them) because of territories and borders isn't safe for making an autistic state. I just don't want anyone to waste time, money and energy contemplating of coming here and possibly getting hurt....but as you wish.
Not only that, I assume that there are people living in those areas who wouldn't look too kindly on a bunch of nitwits thinking they could move in and claim sovereignty.
And once there is some agreement over the location of the borders, whichever country got those areas would quickly chase them out if they hadn't done so already. I can't imagine that anyone would be permitted to just move in like was suggested.
Besides, who wants to live that close to a border at which another war could break out in the future? I sure wouldn't want shelling and bombing to level my house and tanks to cross over the rubble of what had been my living room.
Exactly, and judging by the rocks and stones my copatriots were throwing at participants of Gay Parade in Split few years ago they aren't all that welcoming of different folks......seeing someone taking over their peace of land for which they fought so hard wouldn't be welcomed by any side.
But if they have any money, there are parcels that can be bought for small amount of money in Moslavina, for example, which is cleared of mines, nature is beautiful, people are from stone ages (but very sparse), sewerage is a thing from the statrek.....but they'd have some peace. (I know, I have relatives there).
28 Jan 2015, 2:58 pm
Booyakasha, I know you are from that region, and I do accept your advice when it comes to most things about there, but when it comes to the border situation, I think you are mistaken.
The disputed territories on east bank of the Danube are claimed by both Serbia and Croatia, no question about that, and we won't go anywhere near them.
The territories on the west bank are disputed for another reason. Croatia DOES NOT WANT THEM, AND SERBIA DOES NOT WANT THEM EITHER. Both states want the more substantial amount of territory on the east bank of the Danube.
Now, there is a chance that the local rednecks won't see that distinction, which why is vital we get Croatian aspies working with us. If they are the face of the Autistic State, then I don't see why it can't grow like Zeleni Otok did, as that started out as a squatter colony for artists.
While on the subject of Zeleni Otok, if you look at it on google maps, you will see it does actually dip into "Serbia". Zoom in on google street view, and see if you can find any border posts.
Here is a map of minefields in the region http://www.hcr.hr/en/minskaSituacijaKarta.asp?ID=6 . There don't seem to be any in the area that will be claimed.
When it comes to war, Croatia is part of NATO right? Would Serbia really be dumb enough to attack a NATO member? Especially as it wants to join the EU!
28 Jan 2015, 3:17 pm
Well you should consider the question of logistics, food, things like that as well....I don't want to crush your hopes but as I'd said come here if you want and you'll see what it is like.
Still better keep hopes next to zero - and if you manage to find Croatian Aspies willing to help you well good for you! But I still claim the same - that both countries claim it, they won't let some third party to get in the way, it is very dangerous, mines haven't been cleared, those people are from medieval times (even though they might seem friendly to the tourists) I'm very worried for your safety, but if you don't believe me come here and see for yourself.
And as I'd said, i'll help if I can in whatever way possible.
28 Jan 2015, 3:26 pm
o0iella wrote:
The territories on the west bank are disputed for another reason. Croatia DOES NOT WANT THEM, AND SERBIA DOES NOT WANT THEM EITHER. Both states want the more substantial amount of territory on the east bank of the Danube.
Nope.
They each have their opinion of where the border should be with, presumably, a rational reason to defend their opinion. If they were to start changing that opinion to add the areas, it might make their reasons for their opinion less defensible. They will presumably come to an agreement eventually and those areas will be in one country or the other -- there is no chance that they will be in neither country. In the meantime, I doubt that either country would welcome anyone who wants to move into those areas since they could eventually be part of their country.
Furthermore, it is incomprehensible that those areas are not already owned by various people. They were owned before the border dispute and the border dispute does not mean that the ownership has magically disappeared whether or not anyone currently lives on them. To have any claims at all, you would have to purchase those lands from their legal owners.
I'm sure that both countries would be "amused" at your claims of sovereignty if you moved there. They would laugh at you while they deport you or march you to prison. After all, if you maintain that you are not subject to their laws, you are probably not meeting the requirements to be legally in the country.
Finally, as I said earlier, if there is a war in the future between the two, unless the terrain is really bad, expect armies to come marching across your land and through your house if you buy property there.
If you want sovereignty, you have three choices:
1) Find a country that will sell you the land along with sovereignty. This would not be cheap -- likely far beyond the price of the land by itself. And be ready to build an army to defend that land because if they decide they want it back in ten years, a hundred years, ..., they will get it back if you cannot defend it.
2) Find a country that you can move into, become citizens, and if you get enough people you can control the country. This is much, much harder than it might naively appear. One thing to slow you down is that there are probably already rules on who and how many can enter the country. Also, it can take years to become a citizen or you might never be eligible to become a citizen in some countries.
3) Create your own army and invade a country. Don't even try this if you are a US citizen because this would be illegal.
The only one of those that you would have any chance of success would be the first, but finding property that you can purchase along with sovereignty to it is very rare. I seem to remember reading about someone doing that three or four decades ago, but I may misremember the details -- it is possible that they tried and failed.
28 Jan 2015, 3:33 pm
o0iella wrote:
Now, there is a chance that the local rednecks won't see that distinction, which why is vital we get Croatian aspies working with us. If they are the face of the Autistic State, then I don't see why it can't grow like Zeleni Otok did, as that started out as a squatter colony for artists.
The Serbs were some of our most loyal allies during World War II.
The Croats, on the other hand, were allied with Germany and were only to happy to kill any and all American soldiers, often pilots who crashed in the country, and would wipe out entire villages of Serbs who helped American soldiers escape alive. And don't forget the horrific Croats concentration camps.
envirozentinel
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28 Jan 2015, 4:29 pm
An island would be the most practical. Especially an uninhabited one: there are still a few, mainly very small ones or ones that nobody really wants anymore, such as Starbuck Island... Diego Garcia...
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28 Jan 2015, 8:23 pm
A few years ago, some nutcases wanted to take over Mentone, Texas, pop 19, the county seat of Loving County, pop 82. If they ever return, they are to be arrested.
From http://www.austincc.edu/kseago/pcm/lovingcty.html:
Quote:
The newly elected sheriff had barely pinned on his star in January 2005, he recalled, when his phone rang with an old-fashioned warning: ''You don't know it, but you're in trouble.'' A group was planning a takeover of the county, said the caller, a woman in Arizona who promised to send him some information by e-mail. The material described the plans of a Libertarian faction in its own words ''to win most of the elected offices in the county administration'' and ''restore to freedom'' Loving County. The blueprint, called ''Restoring Loving County,'' said that land was hard to come by but that a ranch had been split up and members were in the process of buying sections.
''The people who are living there will be able to register to vote,'' it said. ''They must swear that they intend to make Loving their home.''
The goal, said an e-mail message attributed to a group member, was to move in enough Libertarians ''to control the local government and remove oppressive regulations (such as planning and zoning, and building code requirements) and stop enforcement of laws prohibiting victimless acts among consenting adults such as dueling, gambling, incest, price-gouging, cannibalism and drug handling.''
Leading the effort, the material showed, was Lawrence Edward Pendarvis, a computer analyst from Brandon, Fla., and operator of a Philippine mail-order-bride Web site who has run into a storm of opposition for trying to establish a similar ''Free State Project'' in Grafton, N.H. He was convicted in Florida in 1997 of downloading child pornography, but the charges were overturned on appeal due to a prosecutorial error.
Days after he received the material, Sheriff Hopper said, Mr. Pendarvis and two other Libertarians, Bobby Y. Emory and Don B. Duncan, showed up to look for land and last fall, claiming they had bought property on eBay, filed voter-registration forms. But, the sheriff said, after checking deeds at the county courthouse, he talked to the presumed sellers, who were in California, and was told the property had been sold to other buyers. He and the Texas ranger in Fort Stockton, 75 miles away, then filed misdemeanor charges against the three men, who had left the state.
''We need people, we need people bad, don't get me wrong,'' said Sheriff Hopper, 68, who is also the registrar of voters, tax assessor and collector. ''But we don't need that deal.''
Mr. Pendarvis, reached in Florida, said that his group had a canceled check that proved they had properly bought the 126 acres for $30,000 and that they were operating within the law. Sheriff Hopper said even though the charge was only a misdemeanor, the three men faced arrest if they showed up in Loving County. ''We're letting them know we know what they're up to,'' he said.
Now pictures of the three decorate a poster on the sheriff's door at the Loving County Courthouse under the timeworn Wild West legend: ''Wanted by the Texas Rangers.''
''The people who are living there will be able to register to vote,'' it said. ''They must swear that they intend to make Loving their home.''
The goal, said an e-mail message attributed to a group member, was to move in enough Libertarians ''to control the local government and remove oppressive regulations (such as planning and zoning, and building code requirements) and stop enforcement of laws prohibiting victimless acts among consenting adults such as dueling, gambling, incest, price-gouging, cannibalism and drug handling.''
Leading the effort, the material showed, was Lawrence Edward Pendarvis, a computer analyst from Brandon, Fla., and operator of a Philippine mail-order-bride Web site who has run into a storm of opposition for trying to establish a similar ''Free State Project'' in Grafton, N.H. He was convicted in Florida in 1997 of downloading child pornography, but the charges were overturned on appeal due to a prosecutorial error.
Days after he received the material, Sheriff Hopper said, Mr. Pendarvis and two other Libertarians, Bobby Y. Emory and Don B. Duncan, showed up to look for land and last fall, claiming they had bought property on eBay, filed voter-registration forms. But, the sheriff said, after checking deeds at the county courthouse, he talked to the presumed sellers, who were in California, and was told the property had been sold to other buyers. He and the Texas ranger in Fort Stockton, 75 miles away, then filed misdemeanor charges against the three men, who had left the state.
''We need people, we need people bad, don't get me wrong,'' said Sheriff Hopper, 68, who is also the registrar of voters, tax assessor and collector. ''But we don't need that deal.''
Mr. Pendarvis, reached in Florida, said that his group had a canceled check that proved they had properly bought the 126 acres for $30,000 and that they were operating within the law. Sheriff Hopper said even though the charge was only a misdemeanor, the three men faced arrest if they showed up in Loving County. ''We're letting them know we know what they're up to,'' he said.
Now pictures of the three decorate a poster on the sheriff's door at the Loving County Courthouse under the timeworn Wild West legend: ''Wanted by the Texas Rangers.''
Take special notice of this. If you try something similar, you will be as big a joke as those who tried to take over Mentone, Texas and Loving County.
29 Jan 2015, 3:05 am
eric76 wrote:
o0iella wrote:
Now, there is a chance that the local rednecks won't see that distinction, which why is vital we get Croatian aspies working with us. If they are the face of the Autistic State, then I don't see why it can't grow like Zeleni Otok did, as that started out as a squatter colony for artists.
The Serbs were some of our most loyal allies during World War II.
The Croats, on the other hand, were allied with Germany and were only to happy to kill any and all American soldiers, often pilots who crashed in the country, and would wipe out entire villages of Serbs who helped American soldiers escape alive. And don't forget the horrific Croats concentration camps.
Yeah, those camps were worse than German and even some of the German highest officers asked Pavelić to reduce the brutality of the camps - they even invented a special knife called "srbosjek" which they used to cut the throats of Serbs - women, children, everyone. Sava was red of Serbian blood - and it isn't taught today in Croatian schools - we're only been taught of Bleiburg and what communists have done in return....Tuđman even tried to reduce the number of alleged victims. Seriously, I'm half Croat and very ashamed of that half.
So if anyone thinks that they can come here, create a state, and even count on help of Croatian Aspies is being very naive and putting himself and others in great danger....but waste time, energy and money if you want. It won't happen anyway.
Kraichgauer
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Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
29 Jan 2015, 6:25 am
Booyakasha wrote:
eric76 wrote:
o0iella wrote:
Now, there is a chance that the local rednecks won't see that distinction, which why is vital we get Croatian aspies working with us. If they are the face of the Autistic State, then I don't see why it can't grow like Zeleni Otok did, as that started out as a squatter colony for artists.
The Serbs were some of our most loyal allies during World War II.
The Croats, on the other hand, were allied with Germany and were only to happy to kill any and all American soldiers, often pilots who crashed in the country, and would wipe out entire villages of Serbs who helped American soldiers escape alive. And don't forget the horrific Croats concentration camps.
Yeah, those camps were worse than German and even some of the German highest officers asked Pavelić to reduce the brutality of the camps - they even invented a special knife called "srbosjek" which they used to cut the throats of Serbs - women, children, everyone. Sava was red of Serbian blood - and it isn't taught today in Croatian schools - we're only been taught of Bleiburg and what communists have done in return....Tuđman even tried to reduce the number of alleged victims. Seriously, I'm half Croat and very ashamed of that half.
So if anyone thinks that they can come here, create a state, and even count on help of Croatian Aspies is being very naive and putting himself and others in great danger....but waste time, energy and money if you want. It won't happen anyway.
As you personally are innocent of any bloodshed, and as you are outraged by it, you have nothing to be ashamed of. My family is largely of German descent on both sides, and I had always resented those who had tried to make me feel ashamed or at all responsible for Nazi atrocities, especially since my family have been Americans for well over a hundred years, making responsibility on my part impossible.
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-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
29 Jan 2015, 6:42 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Booyakasha wrote:
eric76 wrote:
o0iella wrote:
Now, there is a chance that the local rednecks won't see that distinction, which why is vital we get Croatian aspies working with us. If they are the face of the Autistic State, then I don't see why it can't grow like Zeleni Otok did, as that started out as a squatter colony for artists.
The Serbs were some of our most loyal allies during World War II.
The Croats, on the other hand, were allied with Germany and were only to happy to kill any and all American soldiers, often pilots who crashed in the country, and would wipe out entire villages of Serbs who helped American soldiers escape alive. And don't forget the horrific Croats concentration camps.
Yeah, those camps were worse than German and even some of the German highest officers asked Pavelić to reduce the brutality of the camps - they even invented a special knife called "srbosjek" which they used to cut the throats of Serbs - women, children, everyone. Sava was red of Serbian blood - and it isn't taught today in Croatian schools - we're only been taught of Bleiburg and what communists have done in return....Tuđman even tried to reduce the number of alleged victims. Seriously, I'm half Croat and very ashamed of that half.
So if anyone thinks that they can come here, create a state, and even count on help of Croatian Aspies is being very naive and putting himself and others in great danger....but waste time, energy and money if you want. It won't happen anyway.
As you personally are innocent of any bloodshed, and as you are outraged by it, you have nothing to be ashamed of. My family is largely of German descent on both sides, and I had always resented those who had tried to make me feel ashamed or at all responsible for Nazi atrocities, especially since my family have been Americans for well over a hundred years, making responsibility on my part impossible.
Many thanks, well the other half is half German, half Hungarian, so I understand you as well.
But I know every nation has its dark past, the problem is that today such extreme nationalism is alive and well and celebrated but children aren't taught at all what had happened in Jasenovac and Stara Gradiška... there are streets named after ustachi war criminals, even today. And I witnessed hatred towards Serbs even at my faculty a few years ago....And whole thing was done with the help of catholic church, especially friars - one was called "father devil" because of his thirst for Serbian blood - and today, Catholic Church is alive and well here (and collecting money), and one member of Catholic clergy who was put to prison because of alleged war crimes - archbishop Stepinac, has even apparently reached sainthood.
If anyone is interested, wiki page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miroslav_Filipovi%C4%87
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac_ ... ation_camp
29 Jan 2015, 12:41 pm
You might as well have a state for left-handed, little people. Or a state for people with outie bellybuttons, who ride unicycles.
This is a stupid idea, and segregation.
What’s more, as I mentioned before, just because you may share some traits and diagnosis doesn’t mean you are any way the same in every other respect.
Also it is a flawed concept that every group deserves their own homeland. There are literally infinite ways you can divide up the population, based on traits an characteristics.
envirozentinel
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29 Jan 2015, 12:46 pm
I don't want to derail what seems to be quite a serious topic, but wouldn't it be poetic justice if we could take over the Vatican, chuck out the several hundred elderly bureaucratic inhabitants and have an Autistic State flag put up in St Peter's Square?
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my blog:
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29 Jan 2015, 1:00 pm
envirozentinel wrote:
I don't want to derail what seems to be quite a serious topic, but wouldn't it be poetic justice if we could take over the Vatican, chuck out the several hundred elderly bureaucratic inhabitants and have an Autistic State flag put up in St Peter's Square?
Loool, we'd be the richest citizens on this planet
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