What do you think about abortion

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why is it that there is so much overlap between anti-abortion types and anti-birth control types?

Personally, I don't like the idea of abortion. I think it should only be used after careful consideration and preferably early enough in term to be able to take a oral contraceptive. However I believe making it illegal will lead to back alley abortions and shaming and I think it's better to have safe abortion options available to the public. Therefor, I am pro-choice. I'm not religious (not an atheist, more agnostic) so I don't believe in the "sign from God" theory you proposed. I think it was just an awful mistake.

Simple, they want to control women's bodies...

i'm wondering if it is a Darwinian thing, they just want their exalted genes propagated, and birth control/abortion prevents this?

I hadn't thought of that, but it sounds like it could have some basis in fact. In other animal species, we see adults kill a mates babies if it isn't theirs. I would hope that more people have moved beyond such foolishness, but apparently not...

I long have seen humans as "animal lite."

No, obviously you cannot be aborted now, unless someone invents time travel, but you might find yourself on the losing side of that sort of thinking one day. Right this way Juden...



Looks like someone's already found possible problems with sentience. As I said before: "The terms will change, the logic will meander depending on that person's desire, they will say the fetus does not have X, X will often be a philosophical concept vaguely understood at best and most likely not present in toddlers either."
Even if I did concede sentience was a measurable thing, it still doesn't address my argument that what is destroyed is still a developing human being. If the unborn are non-sentient human beings, they are still human beings, just as unconscious human beings are still human beings. They may not have whatever concept you have decided to introduce to this argument, but if you don't end their existence prematurely, they will gain, medical complications aside, "full humanness" at some point in the future.
The problem with viability I have covered enough.



Your faith in impressive. But most scientists will tell you, there is actually no scientific consensus on when human life begins. Before you say viability, no serious scientist puts this forward, because they know it's inconsistent and not applied to any species other than our own (which should be setting off red alert klaxons in your head).



Most people don't think about this, on both sides, most anti-abortion people are reciting what they have been taught, often alongside doctrine about birth control by family and churches. So too, though they would hate to admit it, are most pro-abortion people reciting what they have been taught by publicly funded schools and sex education curriculums set by fanatically socially liberal groups.You might find some interesting overlaps on their side too if you looked hard enough.

It's been shown statistically that legal abortion is associated with dramatically lower levels of violent crime. There is no benefit to unwanted babies.

You said: "the needed abortions should be done at a hospital with real doctors like any other surgery."

But what would you recommend for poor women in states that forbid all abortion...perhaps not outright, to avoid trouble with the Feds., but by making sure physicians who will perform the necessary procedures, are not allowed to practice in their state. ?????Would you go along with the state being able to forbid all abortions this way?

" If these children were unwanted....." But science and medicine tell us there is no life if the fetus is not viable; it's primarily the Bible Thumpers that believe a "soul" is born into that clump of cells and wish to force their beliefs on everyone else. I believe this covers over 90% of cases. When the baby becomes viable outside the mother's body then we should consider this fetus a person.

Perhaps you can show us the institutions and procedures the right wing religious have set up to care for an unwanted baby brought to term (60 million by your estimate)? Please tell us if they plan on supporting a poor mother through pregnancy and delivery (60 million?)? And also please tell us how they will support and provide for this child as it grows to adulthood. Or perhaps they just want to call down God's wrath on the mother for her heinous act and don't care for the child at all????

Yes, but in the United States the wholly ineffectual practice of abstinence-only sex education is still prevalent in many states, so a lot of people aren't educated about birth control or devices.

And with the Hobby Lobby Supreme Court decision, employers may now refuse coverage of contraception in employee health insurance, which may make several forms of highly effective forms of contraception (like IUD) unaffordable for low-income women.

It's called a "condom" dude. Inexpensive and available. Abortion should NEVER be used as birth control. If they are going to use abortion as birth control (which I don't think is a cheap procedure) then they need to be sterilized.

Condoms have a failure rate up to 90 times higher than IUDs if not properly used. And since a lot of US children are not given proper sex education, the risk of improper use is probably quite significant.

And condoms are actually more expensive than IUDs in the long run, but IUDs have higher up-front costs that low income women may not be able to pay... which is why insurance coverage is so crucial.

Last edited by GGPViper on 07 Apr 2016, 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The problem is, the same as*holes who want to prevent abortion also think teaching kids about condoms is immoral.

Yeah, I've noticed that too.

Preaching about abstinence really does not work at all in this day and age too as well.

IUD's don't protect against diseases. A woman should probably require two forms of protection. AND condoms are not more expensive for the woman if the GUY helps pay. Right?

Case in point - I used to know these two guys that had an entire huge jar filled to capacity with condoms. I guess they weren't getting lucky and that's why the jar was full, but that's beside the point.

Who are these "as*holes"? Sex is all over the internet and tv and kids still don't know about condoms? I thought they were teaching the condom-banana thingy in sex education class.