What someone has said about abortion on another forum.

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What's preventing women from posting in this thread?

It's certainly not MY intention to "speak for women." I would be presumptuous and wrong if I felt able to "speak for women."

It is, however, my prerogative to express an opinion.

I believe the women has the right to "choose." But it's still sad that abortion has to happen, anyway.

This is why I say anyone with a working uterus can get pregnant. I know non binary and trans men exist and they want to be include, not have everyone pretend it's only women.

This is just a guess, but it may have a lot to do with all the "Mansplaining" going on.

I usually just say that too. I've been using "women" here because I don't know if that terminology might set someone off or confuse someone. lol

Whether I'm a man, or a woman, or some other gender, it's still sad that abortion has to happen.

Based on what women have told me, having an abortion is a decision which devastates them. It is probable that men don't fully realize how devastating the idea of abortion is to a woman.

Yes. As I wrote about this again I though, why do i do this. Men talking to men about something men have no right to make judgement about. I think maybe women have their own opinion and dont care what we men say. I sure hope so.

Gragz out.

No, man, please stay around, Gragz.

Women have things that they know more about.

And men have things that they know more about.

It doesn't mean that a woman can't advise a man about something, or vice versa.

It's rather like a black person claiming that a white person has no idea what it is to be black. Maybe not totally----but, perhaps the white person has had similar experiences to the black person, so the white person's advice could very well be valid. And both people can identify with each other.

I used to be in a online group and if you used woman or man, people in that group would make a big deal about it and correct you saying things like "women aren't the only ones who can get a period." But it was also a trans friendly group and lot of people in it were either trans or non binary. But they were pretty hostile towards anyone who was cis. Kind of like how you see NT hate on autism forums. It was the same there but with cisgender people.

This is why I don't go on too many forums

Why must people look for a fight right out of leftfield?

Thanks Kraftiekortie, I's just that, well, it hurts.
That's Americans for you, this white/black stuff. But I agree to the rest, it do not matter who you are, valid/logic points can be made by everyone.

Well for starters my definition of personhood massively expands our traditional understanding to capture most primates, dogs, pigs, cetaceans, corvids, indeed it probably goes all the way to animals like chickens.

If you have a human brain that is remotely functional then you have a sense of your ongoing existence. Every intellectually disabled person clears that threshold.

Some humans with very extreme brain damage (who are what we would call “brain dead”) do not. Some babies with certain very rare, very quickly fatal medical conditions that boil down to being born without the majority of the brain would also not meet that standard.

There are two categories where self-awareness is severely impaired but we tend to nonetheless extend moral protection. Babies probably don’t meet that standard until they are a few months old. Next, humans with very advanced neurodegenerative conditions that impact upon their memory might struggle to meet that definition. My grandmother died of vascular dementia. For the last couple of months she was bedridden, no longer associated hunger with a desire to eat, barely capable of voluntary movement, and eventually she died because she stopped being capable of involuntary movement. While she was biologically alive, no shred of her personality remained - her person died before her body did.

I’m happy that we have laws against murder for all humans after birth (at least until a doctor or court declares that they have no hope of regaining consciousness) to guarantee protection for edge cases. I appreciate that some would argue that intellectually disabled people are not people and I do not want them to be at risk. My ideal would be to extend laws against murder to cover the killing of primates, cetaceans, dogs, pigs, and other highly intelligent animals. I see no reason to protect humans before birth if the mother does not want to keep carrying them.

Can an intellectually disabled person consent to sex? Can their caretaker consent for them?

If the person seem to be able to perceive, give and receive, give a 'yes' or 'no', the yes. Difficult but yes

This made me think a lot, and I realised that I have the compassion, love and empathy required to help in this. But it need to be transparent and really safe and I would need to communicate at some level with the disabled person. And I would be scared so much. What if I wouldn't be able to help to make the person relax and trust and just feel good.

Last edited by Gaffer Gragz on 12 Feb 2021, 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

This is awwwsome
https://eu.tennessean.com/story/news/local/2014/05/01/dating-intellectual-disabilities-right/8583819/

I feel an intellectually-challenged person has the right to feel sexual pleasure.....just like a more “normal” person. Many are sexually frustrated; that might be why they act out sometimes.

A mutually-beneficial pleasure....not one-sided for the more “normal” person.

Within a loving relationship. Exploitation is criminal.

Ya, this happens to me a lot, which is why I try to use the words "biologically female" or even more accurate "born biologically female."