Are British stereotypes offensive?

Post Reply New Topic

Almost as a good as a "gin an tonic" me govner! ) (or me lady )

viewtopic.php?t=395465

Just the thread that asks my question.

Corr! no wonder the sun never set on our empire...I'm gonna break into song...."rule Brittania! Brittania rules the waves....

I think whether or not you like The Simpsons, or whether or not you like the show/movie/comedian and their material is going to influence your perception of whether the stereotype is harmful. Most shows try to balance things by having a go at their own nationality as well, but let's face it there are always people who are going to be offended when they see themselves portrayed negatively in the context of another country's culture. Whether people like it or not I think history does skew things as society is still trying to correct the legacy of European dominance and some terrible racial inequalities. In that way, yes, I think stereotypes of black people are less acceptable.

I'll add that if anyone visits another country and gets abused for their nationality/ethnicity, no that's not acceptable whether it's white on white or asian on asian bad treatment towards people in person is morally wrong.

Colonizer.

Ay missy, to quote the great Winston, We'll fight them on the beaches, well fight them at sea, but most of all we'll give it to them on the football oval.....England!

Englishmen weren't too fond of Aussie backpackers drunkenly marauding through the streets of London, COVID conspiracy 326 was the virus was deliberately released to stop us from wrecking the pubs in the UK

Reminds me of one time in the 80s I was riding a morning train from Baltimore to DC and for some reason there was a handful of young Australians (not a usual occurrence to see Australians or any sort of tourist on that train). Anyway, at one point one of them casually remarked on how fat Americans are, which is noteworthy only by how loudly he said it. Fortunately, everyone ignored him.

This is a good question:

How come the rhyme Fe fi fo fum I smell the blood of an Englishman isn't classed as racist or offensive - but if it was Fe fi fo fum I smell the blood of a blackman then it would be extremely racist and offensive and probably would be banned?

Scots and English have been united for ages, an old rhyme that preserves memories of animosity really doesn't have any power because it's not still an issue and the English were never oppressed by the Scots.

If some similar rhyme happened to capture old anti-black sentiments in a similar manner the modern situation would place our understandings of the two in different contexts. One would be ancient and barely remembered and the other would be an issue that still exists.

Basically, there's two separate issues; power dynamic and does the attitude still exist. Those two issues are both in play to make your comparison not actually a fair comparison.

As a child I took this to mean that when Jack arrived in the giant's domain, he was no longer in England meaning he was no longer in a place where legal authorities could act to prevent the giant from killing him. In other words, he was now in a place where the giant was the sole undisputed authority and could deal out any justice he chose.

This is getting my brain going. Jack could easily be seen as a pirate who will probably be captured and killed if he raids some foreign stronghold and makes off with the treasury. His earlier actions, such as selling the cow for magic beans, suggest he is somebody that prefers what seems the "easy" (if risky) path in life.

Now it's my understanding that fairy tales can have multiple versions. In the US, the version I was exposed to was one in which Jack successfully plunders multiple valuables from the giant, including the hen (goose?) that lays golden eggs (which his family is for some reason smart enough not to kill). I can imagine there were earlier versions in which Jack faced justice for his thievery.

Who's Jack?
I've always known the rhyme as

Fe fi fo fum
I smell the blood of an Englishman
Be him alive or be him dead
I'll grind his bones to make my bread

But it doesn't matter what context or background it has, if the 'Englishman' was 'Blackman' or something, it would be racist.
This rhyme was brought up in a question on a game show I was watching today on TV, but I know that if this rhyme was racist they wouldn't allow the game show to ask that question.
I mean, they changed Baa baa black sheep to Baa baa rainbow sheep. But if the rhyme was originally Baa baa white sheep it wouldn't have been changed to rainbow sheep.

They changed Baa baa black sheep?

^ Seems dubious:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baa,_Baa, ... troversies

Also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loony_lef ... e_Sheep%22

Changing the "black sheep" rhyme is over reach.

A better comparison with the Giant would be "eanie meanie minie moe, catch a tiger by the toe. If he hollars let him go."

Originally the "tiger" was "n****r".

Racism, and Jim Crow, are a recent painful memory. So its necessary to change the rhyme.

But the ethnic wars between Scots and English are in the distant past.

Though I do remember, as a child, being confounded as to the WHAT Jack's nationality had to do with anything? Its not made clear that he is English the beginning of the story, and its not obvious what his being English has to do with anything in the story. In fact it wasnt until reading this thread that I knew "English as opposed to WHAT? American? French?Chinese?. Okay ..so now I finnally know that its "English" as opposed to "Scottish".

That figures. A lot of Elizabethan era politics was secretly lampooned in rhyme, and is still preserved like bugs in amber, in modern nursery rhymes. Humpty Dumpty was a big oversized cannon commissioned by the king of England that was mounted on a castle wall, and it blew up, and "all of the kings horses, and all of the kings men couldnt" put it back together again.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailym ... tones.html