A different subject I’d like to talk about

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Because lot of people don't understand nuance and they think in black and white and I swear that many people have borderline low IQs because they are sure not thinking critically. But yet how can they be this stupid if they went to law school, surely the judge would know this unless most of them are sociopaths.

I even doubt a teen is thinking "I don't care if a ruin a innocent man's life, not my problem, I will sneak in with a fake ID and see who is dumb enough to think I am 18 and if they sleep with me, good. If not, they were sure smart."

But I knew at age 12 that if I had sex with any adult, they would be the ones in trouble and it doesn't matter if I wanted it. That was because my parents told me this when I saw Mary Kay being arrested on TV for having a sexual affair with her 13 year old student. And I wasn't a sociopath so I couldn't see myself trying to ruin an adult's life by having sex with them and even lying about my age because lot of people thought I was older anyway and I was being mistaken as an 18 year old by age 15 because I had breasts and a woman's body. Even back then I thought it would be unfair an adult should be in trouble with the law if I tricked them into having sex with me by lying about my age.

But yet they married in 1988 and she was born in 1965. So they met in 1977 on a set? How was their relationship then? Was it sexual or just friendship? Did they lose contact and met again when she was much older and they finally dated and marry? Context is missing.

But some people are against dating someone you knew since they were underage. So if my husband knew me at age 12 and then he decided to date me when I was 21, people would be against this all because we had met when I was a kid and it wouldn't matter if there was no relationship between us then. Some people are even against waiting till someone is legal before asking them out.

That's it. teens don't think about these things. It's often an emotional decision. I suspect 99% of the young males who have sex with an adult woman thoroughly enjoyed the experience. It's only after the event they might retrospectively realise that it was wrong and then they pretend they were victims to avoid getting in trouble with their parents, the school or the authorities. It's so obvious.

In highschool my Spanish teacher (who was from Europe and dressed provocatively) would flirt with some of the male students. She knew what she was doing. In the locker rooms I gauged that nearly every boy in her class wanted to have sex with her. Her presence did not go unnoticed from the male teachers either. Eventually the English teacher separated from his partner and started dating the Spanish teacher. We speculated whether he left her for the Spanish beauty but we never knew the background story.

I don't know the background story other than Bacon met Sedgewick when she was 12. My point is that the age of the partner is really a can of worms. This legal edicts about a person's development based on their birthdays is a matter of convenience rather than a matter of law or any good sense,.

Based on the article/video you really don't know. You get part of the story, like a political ad. Maybe she is really regretful, but you don't honestly know her through the video, you know what they wanted to show you.

The point is not just the age difference, but the difference in power. A 14 year-old can be in junior high and a 19 year-old in college. They are in very different places in life, just like a 20 year-old and a 45 year-old. Because of that, I would seriously question a 19 year-old wanting to sleep with a 14 year-old. It's hard to imagine them being friends, let alone having a sexual experience both fully understand. I'm sure when I was 14 I wanted to sleep with a 19 year-old, but could I really trust them and did I know what the consequences might be?

The more nuance you find in law and society, the less they will exist. They're about property, not people. That's why you see stories like this, but less often will the law target the wealthy (Epstein, Maxwell, etc.).

I went to school with a girl who was 15 when she became visibly pregnant (she was 14 and her boyfriend was a high school senior who was 18 when she conceived). She subsequently left school and we never saw her again,

What I do remember was she was very mature for her age, both physically and mentally. To my 15 year old eyes she looked like an adult (If I saw her now I would probably see her differently as a kid). Girls who mature early are inevitably going to be physically attractive to older men (I know this is a taboo topic but its obvious). No man who is over 18 is ever going to date a school girl but if they met in school then when he was a school leaver and she was new in middle high then the attraction might lead to something.

Last edited by cyberdad on 16 Jul 2022, 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

A girl in my 8th grade class was pregnant.
I don't know who the father was, or his age.

My auntie fell pregnant at 15.
My grandparents told her boyfriend he had to marry her, or never see her again.
They got married and they're still together about 50 years later.
They're one of the happiest couples I know.

Unfortunately nowadays teenage pregnancy leads to deadbeat or missing fathers and the girl's life going into a tailspin.

This sounds like a different situation than what I was talking about. And all I was arguing was a question of motivation. I'm not saying people with an age difference--even in those stages of life--could never genuinely love each other. It just seems very rare.



Is this supposed to refute what I said? Children will always be attractive to pedophiles, but that doesn't mean I'm okay with it. The point is no one is forced to act on physical or sexual attraction. And there is more to a person than their body. I'm not saying it's wrong for an older man to notice that, say, an 18 year-old is physically attractive, because no one chooses what they're attracted to it. I'm questioning the motivations of people who act on suspect attractions.

Also, every teenager likes to think they're mature beyond their years, and experience. I'm talking mentally. It's very easy for someone to take advantage of that.

.

You just gave an example of one who did.

I don't care if people argue with me, but half of what you said has little to do with my post.

Reason why girls would want older men is not because of maturity but because it's wired in our brains that we want to find a man to provide for us. Older man means he is more financially stable and has his life together so he can provide for her while she stays at home and takes care of the kids.

But older men need to realize this as well and reject them because of their age and they are far too old for them. Imagine if a 12 year old girl was crushing on you and wanted to be your girlfriend and you were 17, you reject them saying "I like you as a friend but I am too old to be with you. It's not right and I will go to jail if I had a relationship with you. It's illegal to have a relationship with kids who are more than 2 years younger than you."

A 12 year old might think this law is stupid but however as they get into adulthood, they will understand why this law exists.

I'm not arguing with you, Merely giving another perspective. That's what a healthy discussion forum is for,

You are fixing the law of attraction to "18" as if a girl magically becomes attractive to older men on their birthday. Prior to the modern era a girl was deemed physically desirable to a man when she turned 13. That's not me, it's just known historic fact.

According to historian Mordechai A. Friedman, "arranging and contracting the marriage of a young girl were the undisputed prerogatives of her father in ancient times." Most girls were married before the age of 15, often at the start of their puberty."In England christian law allowed for a 12 year old girl to be married to her husband provided there was consent. Girls always obeyed her parents. Based on this most of our male ancestors would be classified as pedophiles,

The reason for this is complicated but ultimately men were capable of being physically attracted to a girl at a much younger age than 18. In our modern era it is innapropriate/taboo to even mention this. Men are conditioned to not look at girls under 18 in a sexual way and I agree with this (especially those of us with daughters).

Yes I have experienced this when I was in my early 20s and I was tasked with filming a church concert for my parents and a group of 15 year oid girls were behind me. I was by myself dressed in a suit and tie so probably looked quite presentable. One of the girls (whom I didn't know) tapped me on the shoulder and said my name and asked me how I was (as if she knew me). I looked at her and shrugged my shoulders and said "fine?". I could audibly hear that girl tell her friends "see, I told you I knew him" and her friends remark "wow, can you introduce me" after which there was giggling and I switched off.

Afterward I thought it was funny that girls that age were hoping to get to know me? I had literally zero interest despite the fact they were pretty, I was conditioned to believe they were kids and that's how I saw them.

When I see a topic like this I really want to go meta on it to figure out the source of the extreme feelings, not to challenge them necessarily as to more accurately frame the concerns.

It seems like with pedophilia the primary concerns are the following:

1) most obvious and direct - wanting to protect our children.
2) on a more societal level - protect children for the sake of having fewer damaged adults.

Additional problems I'd see if it were ever legalized:

3) Mercenary game theory kicked off at an early age by those who were more suited for exchanging sex for money at a younger age (ie. poisoning the whole social ecosystem children grow up in). That's a toxic waste spill in broader culture that could damage whole generations.

4) This one's probably the most interesting - if it were legal whose kids? It's kind of obvious, it would be very direct class cannibalism as sex and money are the only things that can be considered even exchange.


If someone else can think of additional reasons please add them.

The challenge with getting this right, as the OP I think stated correctly, is that destroying lives of teens isn't a good idea unless something really bizarre is happening (senior and a freshmen, ie. school peers, is a lot different than a 19 and 12 year old for example where the social bridge is a lot harder to explain). Similarly we consider it creepy if 50-somethings are having relationships with 18 year olds but it's technically legal. This is where these laws do need nuance because destroying lives, especially while letting the people in question live to old age with ruined lives and little opportunity for real redemption of any kind, is not only heinous but it creates criminals (ie. similarly perverse to throwing someone in jail for marijuana possession when this isn't applied wisely).

an article claimed that anyone convicted of public urination has to register as a convicted sex offender.

After thinking about it, there is another way that I can at least understand the laws that put people on the registry without intent; if schools teach students about those laws, and what it’s like to live as a sex offender. That way they know to be super careful, having proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the person they’re about to hook up with is of age.

But we all know that’s not the case. Reading Shakespeare books and determining the degree of an angle is somehow more important. That is why I’m so defensive of people who get tricked into committing statutory rape and why I don’t understand how the opposing POV makes any sense.

unless you intended to expose yourself to someone, especially a child, how is that even a crime, let alone registry worthy?