"Jesus dying for our sins."
Jesus dying for people's sins didn't happen either way you look at it.
If you're a Christian: He was crucified, but then came back from the dead a few days later. There was no sacrifice. Peter (who was also crucified, supposedly upside down) didn't rise from the dead, so he actually sacrificed/suffered more than Jesus did. If Jesus didn't really sacrifice anything by coming back to life, one of the most important parts of Christianity is completely pointless.
If you're not a Christian: He was just a man (if you think he even existed), and he was not a saviour. I don't think I have to explain this part any further...
Bec
Your wrong it does not matter if You died 3 days or 2000 years so to speak death is death before God. Jesus Resurrection 3 days later is a Hope for All of Us that Live or have Lived on Earth. Jesus has given Us this hope from His Death and His Resurrection in the end.
_________________
Come on My children lets All get Along Okay.
I think that this is a difference in the interpretation of "death". Apparently physical death is an unpleasant experience itself, but there is also non-physical pain resulting from the whole "taking upon himself the entire world's sins" thing, and that can be presumed to be quite a burden. Then there is hell, which he had to visit in order to prevent the entire human race from getting stuck in it. I think I remember hearing the Sunday school teachers mentioning that the essence of hell/"spiritual death" is separation from God...described by some as a thorough, insatiable emptiness less tolerable than physical pain, which a few people have claimed they feel on here Earth.
I suppose the thing I am more or less attempting to communicate is that Jesus may be just fine now, but after literally going through hell, He at least earned Himself gratitude from a portion of the populace.
[If this is inarticulate or in some other way poorly expressed, please forgive me and cast your blame toward my 2:30AM bedtime.]
It'd be really nice if God could pop down to earth one day and prove to everyone he exists. He doesn't have to explain all the terrible things that happen to people, or anything like that, just that he exists. Otherwise, all I see religion to be is an ancient device used to control and pacify people, before television was invented.
I geniunely don't mean to offend any religious people, this is just my view.
_________________
To all of my friends:
Wait, never mind.
Because seriously, if me and a bunch of other people are all standing around thinking, "Hey, we need 1 guy to die for all of our sins, we got any volunteers?" I'd probably be pretty close to the front of the line. Doesn't seem like a big sacrifice knowing there is existance post death. I mean, yeah, crucifiction is extremely agonizing, but once its over you're set. Especially knowing it is for everybodys sins. Seems like a really good deal.
And if like in a couple of years we need a new guy to die for our sins, i'll volunteer, i got a lot of free time. People act like it was such a hard thing to do, and i'm just not seeing why it is.
_________________
"And lo, the beast looked upon the face of beauty. And beauty stayed his hand. And from that day on, he was as one dead."
It's incredibly vague responses like this that keep fortune tellers in business, and why many people still read their horrorscopes.
_________________
To all of my friends:
Wait, never mind.
One of the annoying things about this site is the sheer number of people who have nothing relevant or intelligent to say on a subject, but simply have to post their banalities (or what they seem to think are witty/satirical remarks) on any active thread.
If people want or see a need for a christian/atheist debate, I suggest they start their own thread for that purpose.
Have you seen Life of Brian:
always look at the bright side of life
The urge for thirst is even stronger then breathing.
I remember reading that Jesus was given a sponge soaked in liquid for drinking (was it vinegar?)
_________________
Music is the language of the world.
Math is the language of the universe.
To most faithful believers, including the most intelligent and insightful, there is no need for such a dilemma, as they feel that God has revealed himself to them in ways that are much more subtle and profound. They may intellectually understand the dilemma, but are not at all bothered by it, because they feel God's presence with them and within them (iIm not saying this is a fact other than their feeling it is so). It all seems to boil down to a matter of perspective for them. It lead me to conlcude that if God exists, not only would many people not recognize him/her/it as such, but we're mostly asking the wrong questions. That certainly makes sense to me (I think we're out of touch with a lot of things), and seems in line with much of what's written in the bible.
_________________
"And lo, the beast looked upon the face of beauty. And beauty stayed his hand. And from that day on, he was as one dead."
Have you seen Life of Brian:
always look at the bright side of life
I remember reading that Jesus was given a sponge soaked in liquid for drinking (was it vinegar?)
_________________
"And lo, the beast looked upon the face of beauty. And beauty stayed his hand. And from that day on, he was as one dead."
Last edited by Thagomizer on 23 Jan 2006, 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jesus was one of over 1000 people who were 'cusified'. So why was his death different? What made his death different to the others? If they were alive today would they feel any pitty for jesus? And was his death essentral or not? For me it is not he wasent nothing special he was a man which suffered the law. The laws at the time in roman history was that if u talked about religion u suffered the conserquence. If Jesus death was essentral to the bible why was our sins used as a exuse for the wrong he did and later in roman history christianity became there main religion. So he made sucsess in brain washing the generation with the bible. Was his death different no it wasent he was the same because we are all made to die some day so why dose another death matter because death is the end of good of some one so no one wins Jesus a suitable man died and we get told what is wrong and right when the identifacation of wrong and right is impossabe because wromg and right is openinated and is never straight ford.
i would like to hear ur thorghts on this
i would like to hear ur thorghts on this
_________________
"And lo, the beast looked upon the face of beauty. And beauty stayed his hand. And from that day on, he was as one dead."
Why though Jesus death more important than anybody else. It is this God said so in the end. Jesus though was a man, He was to God His Son. The first of His Creation that whats makes Jesus death more important. Jesus was a Sinless man for if He was with sin then He could not be that Great sacrifice for all of Mankind in the end. The Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes used the Roman Law to Kill Jesus as well Jewish Law against Jesus.
Jesus death in the end for all Mankind, with that said it is Up to Us to decide to beleive or not; it is how We want to live Our Lives that is what God wants Us for Us nothing else than that.
We have Our freedom to decide and that in the end is truly up to Us nobody else but Us.
_________________
Come on My children lets All get Along Okay.
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