Christian God Disproven

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Henriksson
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13 Jul 2009, 8:21 am

Orwell wrote:

Your reasoning reaches an epic fail at point 3.

Show me the money.

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cognito
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13 Jul 2009, 8:23 am

Meta wrote:

cognito wrote:

if god is all powerful could he make stone so heavy that even he could not lift it? if he can't make it, then he is not all powerful, if he can, it means he isn't all powerful for he can not lift it.

You clearly don't understand the law of gravity.

but if he is god, why must he follow the laws of gravity? and ignore Orwell, he will find any source he wants to prove any point he wants and will dismiss any evidence you bring up.

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OddFinn
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13 Jul 2009, 8:24 am

I cannot quite follow the logic in the original post. It seems to ignore some possibilities.

Here's one thought: what if there are several different futures. If someone would know them all, but yet it would be up to individuals' choices which one of the many futures actually occur at any point of time. Then omniscience would not take away free will, in my opinion.

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Henriksson
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13 Jul 2009, 8:25 am

OddFinn wrote:

But if God was indeed omniscient, there would only be one future; the future God knows will happen.

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Meta
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13 Jul 2009, 8:28 am

Henriksson wrote:

Meta wrote:

You would need a very bright lantern to find one true christian on a very bright day in most cities...

I forgot, 'True Christian' means 'Meta and everyone who agrees with him'.

No idea really. I do many unchristian thing...

Show me my knowledge is wrong and I will reconsider.

Henriksson
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13 Jul 2009, 8:30 am

Meta wrote:

Henriksson wrote:

Meta wrote:

You would need a very bright lantern to find one true christian on a very bright day in most cities...

I forgot, 'True Christian' means 'Meta and everyone who agrees with him'.

No idea really. I do many unchristian thing...

Show me my knowledge is wrong and I will reconsider.

You're saying you know the difference between those who claim to be Christians and those who are 'truly Christian', so I guess it's not up to me to show you wrong...

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Orwell
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13 Jul 2009, 8:32 am

Henriksson wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Your reasoning reaches an epic fail at point 3.

Show me the money.

You neglected to take into account the fact that God is typically viewed as existing outside of time. Predetermination precludes free will for entities that exist in time (such as you and I) but not for God. God is also often defined as the freest being that exists.

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Orwell
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13 Jul 2009, 8:35 am

OddFinn wrote:

That's roughly the stance a Jewish friend of mine took in a paper where she tried to reconcile free will with an omniscient God. I didn't get to read the paper (she just told me about it) but I don't think the argument is very convincing, as knowledge that is conditional on someone else's actions doesn't seem to be absolute knowledge.

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Henriksson
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13 Jul 2009, 8:37 am

Orwell wrote:

Henriksson wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Your reasoning reaches an epic fail at point 3.

Show me the money.

If time is 'component of the measuring system used to sequence events, to compare the durations of events and the intervals between them, and to quantify the motions of objects' I'm sorry to say I can't see how anything can be outside of time. So I think I'm quite right in 'neglecting' that, on account of it making no sense whatsoever.

Quote:

God is also often defined as the freest being that exists.

Which is a contradiction to omniscience.

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Orwell
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13 Jul 2009, 8:44 am

Henriksson wrote:

Is that what time is?

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Henriksson
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13 Jul 2009, 8:46 am

Orwell wrote:

Henriksson wrote:

Is that what time is?

Er, yes? If God really was outside of time, it would be some freaky dimension where there is no motion. Some God, eh?

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Orwell
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13 Jul 2009, 8:54 am

Henriksson wrote:

Er, yes?

Perhaps, perhaps not. Physicists in the past century or so have found time to behave rather oddly at times.

Quote:

If God really was outside of time, it would be some freaky dimension where there is no motion. Some God, eh?

God is not physical, so I don't see how that's an issue.

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Meta
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13 Jul 2009, 9:14 am

Henriksson wrote:

Quote:

God is also often defined as the freest being that exists.

Which is a contradiction to omniscience.

So you have to drop one of the two, because not both can be true at the same time.

Henriksson
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13 Jul 2009, 9:16 am

Orwell wrote:

Quote:

If God really was outside of time, it would be some freaky dimension where there is no motion. Some God, eh?

God is not physical, so I don't see how that's an issue.

If not physical, what is it? (And the follow up question is of course, how do you know this?)

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Meta
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13 Jul 2009, 9:21 am

Henriksson wrote:

Er, yes? If God really was outside of time, it would be some freaky dimension where there is no motion. Some God, eh?

Well, given that he would then also be outside of space (the other part of space-time) there wouldn't be much to motion towards or from.

This God just 'is'.

Even God can't force someone to freely love him.
God can't even tell a lie.

ruveyn
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13 Jul 2009, 9:22 am

Henriksson wrote:

The definition of God is a hard one, but going by the definitions most dictionaries give me online:

Quote:

1. God
a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.

I think most would agree that God being omnipotent and omniscient is central to the Christian faith.

The thing is, even ignoring that attributes like omniscience and omnipotence are null in the first place, an entity having both attributes is logically contradictory.

/quote]

The contradiction flows from a bad definition. You Goyim simply do not understand who and what G-D is. You have to live under its influence to get some notion. The Israelites wandering in the wilderness forty years had this sort of experience.

See the following:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8UGzjRwpbA&NR=1

or this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQQkopQS ... re=related

ruveyn

Last edited by ruveyn on 13 Jul 2009, 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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