What happens when the slaves accept master morality?

Page 2 of 3 [ 35 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

xenon13
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,638

11 Aug 2009, 12:09 am

Voltaire's Bastards?

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

11 Aug 2009, 9:59 am

Sand wrote:

Everybody is a slave to physiology. Psychology and a functioning society add other layers of necessary conformity for even bare existence. Freedom is a very debatable conception.

Being subject to natural laws (in particular, physical laws) is NOT slavery. The world works in a particular way. Insofar as we are of the natural order, we function according to natural laws.

The notion that we are slaves to our physical nature is based on the faulty concept that will is sovereign. It is not. Willing and wishing will not change the laws of nature.

ruveyn

NeantHumain
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,837
Location: St. Louis, Missouri

11 Aug 2009, 10:58 am

enamdar wrote:

But in college I discovered that was not the Truth. In fact the ones I had polemicized against for all those years Nietzsche, Marquis de Sade, the Social Darwinists. They were right! It was a cruel sadistic torture orgy. The will to power to be able to dominate hurt others, was all that ruled the world.

Your time in college must have sucked. I'd say college is one of the areas where this social-dominance lifestyle is weakest (compared to, say, among politicians or in the business world).

Sand
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 99
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

11 Aug 2009, 11:02 am

ruveyn wrote:

Sand wrote:

Everybody is a slave to physiology. Psychology and a functioning society add other layers of necessary conformity for even bare existence. Freedom is a very debatable conception.

Slavery is a state of being forced to conform to a set of rules. natural or otherwise.

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

11 Aug 2009, 11:15 am

Sand wrote:

Slavery is a state of being forced to conform to a set of rules. natural or otherwise.

Slavery is the result of human force not natural process. Nature does not enslave us nor is Nature our Mistress. Nevertheless we conform to nature whether we like it or not.

Slavery is a human evil, not a natural process.

ruveyn

Sand
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 99
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

11 Aug 2009, 11:29 am

ruveyn wrote:

Sand wrote:

Slavery is a state of being forced to conform to a set of rules. natural or otherwise.

All life must conform to whatever unalterable current conditions exist or die. Huge numbers of attempts to stay alive by various living things that don't quite fit what is on hand perish continuously and that is perfectly natural. Evil is an idiotic theoretical concoction invented by people who have invented standards they prefer. Slavery, beyond the absolute minimum standards the ecology presents for staying alive, is a state used throughout the animal and plant kingdom in various useful ways to create systems for maintaining life. That it makes various life forms miserable is inconsequential to nature as long as it functions. Humans can take credit for the safety pin, the electric light bulb and the interplanetary rocket, but not slavery.

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

11 Aug 2009, 11:38 am

Sand wrote:

That it makes various life forms miserable is inconsequential to nature as long as it functions. Humans can take credit for the safety pin, the electric light bulb and the interplanetary rocket, but not slavery.

Just because the ants invented slavery, does NOT mean we have to practice it. I prefer machines to slaves. Slaves can cut our throats while we are asleep, machines much less likely so.

As to your pragmatic approach, by and large I agree with it. Many of our moral notions are concoctions and not terribly useful. The sooner we can do away with guilt and shame, the better off we shall be. What we should be doing is practicing constraint which is in line with our logical interests. This is much better than shame and guilt, but it requires the effort of thinking, which is why shame and guilt have priority.

Too bad Nietzche was a tertiary syphlitic. Had he been in his right mind he could have made the above point more clearly and logically.

ruveyn

Sand
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 99
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

11 Aug 2009, 11:51 am

ruveyn wrote:

Sand wrote:

It's good to have something to agree with you on. I highly respect your background and your basic intelligence but I am not a vengeful nor vicious person. There are many things I have not experienced and I know that some of them can totally destroy a person. I am thankful that so far I have escaped them.

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

11 Aug 2009, 11:56 am

Sand wrote:

In a world in which I were free to be as Lean and Mean as I liked, I could also be gracious to some of my inferiors. Humans keep pets which they treat well, do they not? Thus the Best and the Brightest could also have lesser humans upon whom they bestow their favors.

A beggar who receives sufficient crumbs from the table of his Betters is in better physical condition than the free man who starves in independence.

A rational approach would be to increase the number of richly laden tables so that the Lesser Folk could receive more largess. The more crumbs one has, the fewer hunger pains.

Tugging the forelock is a small price to pay for receiving sufficient largess.

ruveyn

Sand
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 99
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

11 Aug 2009, 12:16 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Sand wrote:

I enjoy and interact with both tame and wild animals daily and donate whatever largess I can afford to make their life easier and give them some reason to pay attention to me. I do not treat life forms hierarchically and enjoy the company of sparrows, pigeons, wild ducks, seagulls, crows, squirrels, hedgehogs, jackdaws etc. I do not require forelock tugging and am totally delighted when they welcome my presence. It is enough.

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

12 Aug 2009, 7:29 am

Sand wrote:

You are so sweet. You could probably cause tooth decay.

Some animals I like, some not. I try not to inflict pain on animals who are not bothering me (except bugs. I stomp bugs who invade my house).

ruveyn

Sand
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 99
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

12 Aug 2009, 8:54 am

ruveyn wrote:

Sand wrote:

And your flavor seems to be rat poison.

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

12 Aug 2009, 10:26 am

Sand wrote:

And your flavor seems to be rat poison.

Vitriol or vinegar.

ruveyn

Sand
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 99
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

12 Aug 2009, 10:51 am

ruveyn wrote:

Sand wrote:

And your flavor seems to be rat poison.

Vitriol or vinegar.

ruveyn

Not vinegar nor vitriol nor, sadly, even rat poison approach the nuclear attacks you recommend on any group that offends your peculiar sensibilities. Your tendencies are, frankly, as about as chilling as anybody I have ever encountered.

TitusLucretiusCarus
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 16 Jan 2009
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 518

12 Aug 2009, 11:55 am

could you guys save your flirting for another thread at all?

Sand
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 99
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

12 Aug 2009, 11:59 am

TitusLucretiusCarus wrote:

could you guys save your flirting for another thread at all?

Sure thing. Sorry.

Page 2 of 3 [ 35 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

Jump to:

What happens when the slaves accept master morality? Post Reply New Topic

What happens when the slaves accept master morality?