God exists

Post Reply New Topic

I must restrain myself not to flame you, Chief.... for I'm probably one of the biggest 'anti theo dudes' on WP. But there are folks here I consider my I-friends and yet some believe that god exists.... um, like you. They know my stance, yet I wish not to hurt their feelings any further, incluis yours, and I end this post by saying I'm glad your father is alive and ok. .

I wish you well.

(as a non christian)

Even when I was to be a Christian, I would not have accepted this as evidence of the existence of god.

If your uncle apeared in the room among a flash of light while a booming voice from the sky said 'no don't do it!!' you might have a case.

its another proof of god!

*hides*

Arrrgh.... Too... Much... Irony... Brain... Overloading...

*Explodes all over the thread in a bloody haze of exasperation*

This really shouldn't be in the random discussion forum. Or any forum, for that matter. Too depressing.

For argument's sake though, let's assume that there actually *was* some way for you to confirm that a supernatural force intervened and prevented your father from dying. So what? You're still legions upon legions away from demonstrating that this supernatural force also created and controls every single aspect of the universe, including abstract notions, is completely alone in that capacity, *and* follows a very specific set of doctrines written by humans some thousands of years ago to the exclusion of all other sets of doctrines also written by humans some thousands of years ago.

You fail to consider anything at all other than your own prejudiced notion, intentionally ignoring all reasoning behind other points of view while simultaneously not only failing, but staunchly refusing to provide any justification whatsoever of your own... And yet you call everyone else ignorant while cupping your hands over your own ears and declaring you aren't going to take anybody else seriously. Why then, pray tell (pun not intended), should we offer you that courtesy when you very blatantly stated you will not give it to us?

This has nothing to do with religion, or even the fact that you have a differing opinion. If you offered this same style of 'argument' (and I'm using the term infinitely generously here) to the effect that a deity of some undefined sort doesn't exist, I'd be equally revolted. You simply present, to be frank, as an loudmouthed, arrogant, redneck douchebag who wants to simply shove your opinion down the throats of others and act incredulous that anybody could possibly disagree with you. Of course, the only possible reason anybody could would have to be because they're idiots, because to any rational person (like yourself) it should be painfully, blatantly obvious to the point where no justification for it is necessary or even possible. No way in hell (pun totally intended) you could possibly be wrong about anything.

Of course, I'm probably being too hard on you. You're simply a victim, like so many others are, of longstanding religious propaganda designed to, in essence, brainwash people and prevent them from ever trying to refine or enlighten their points of view. Holding back independent thought is the only way viral religions like Orthodox Christianity survive. (And yes, it is viral; I challenge you to find anybody at all who will independently will come up with Christianity on their own. Every last Christian on earth is a Christian because some influential person or group in their lives who was also infected with Christianity spread it to them while they were in a vulnerable state.)

TL;DR version: You aren't going to convince anybody at all of anything at all when you have an attitude like that. Come back when you learn something about finding common ground and developing rational arguments from it. Of course, the ironic part is that if you ever do you won't even hold the stance you're trying to argue anymore.

he was young at this time but i forgave him

Then why did he let my brother commit suicide?

because "gods ways are mysterious"

its the standard reply for anything f'ed up god allows, or not even allows but carefully monitors, since god is everywhere.
not just people who kill themselves, but got is in the dry clay walls, in every little hut in the congolese jungle, monitoring ritual rape after ritual rape of the desperate civilians. god loves that stuff.

Sounds like something Tenidril or Tor of Perelandra said to Ransom. Have you read any books by C.S. Lewis, such as the space trilogy?

If he does, then where is he when a nut job shoots a class full of four yr old's, or millions of Jews are slaughtered, or when some 10 yr old's torture some other children. And if he does, how does the conciousness or soul get out of the body, as "they" proved that all personality traits are either genetic, or in the brain, and If you were to have your frontal lobes removed then you would act very differently. And I so far haven't seen brains exploding through the foreheads of corpses and flying to the heavens...

People have a choice as to what they do, good or bad. Would you have us be robots then, so as to never do anything wrong? And if we were all robots, what is wrong with shutting down another robot? It's just a robot. Nothing wrong with flipping a switch or breaking one apart. Costly yes, but not morally wrong.

If God is omniscient, then he would know all our memories and the chemical and quantum states of the cells of our brains, and translating them to another form would be within His abilities of omnipotence. I know this is just a matter of internal consistency within an ideology, but really most atheist challenges to Christianity are just that.

There's a bit of a problem with this, as the free will of an action doen't guarantee the success of that action. So someone could try to fire upon a person, and God could stop the bullet, but the person still have made the choice to kill the other person. In the same way I can make the choice to kill somebody with my mind, or to fly by flapping but it won't work. Also, a person's choice to not be raped would be infringed by a rapist.

Why can't I kill people with my mind, if this is a universe where will is truly free?

If this is your answer as to why God allows people to murder others, then why didn't God respect the OP's father's choice to end his life? That's just a blantant disregard for free will, right there.

If Atheism is right, then why would it matter? What is with complaining that God isn't everyone's babysitter?
Not even Roddenberry's Q did so much, and that is an atheist's caricature of God.

Not saying it matters Just pointing out the flaws in your argument. And by lack of rebuttal, I'd say doing a fair job. It was the OP who suggested that God is everyone's baby sitter, not I. If you disagree with that then take it up with him.

I'm not exactly an atheist, anyway. More like undecided. But a big fan of logical arguments

As for the not replying point for point to every statement of every argument, why bother. All these things have been debated ad naseum by myriads of people.

Why does God allow cancer to happen?
Why does God allow genetic disorders to happen?
Why does God allow influenza to happen?
Why does God allow all other sickness to happen?
Why does God allow famines to happen?
Why does God allow natural disasters to happen?
Why does God allow accidents to happen?
Why does God allow bad things to happen to good people?
Why does God allow war to happen?
Why does God allow crime to happen?
Why does God allow failure to happen?